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Mattan Torah was to both men and women (ko somar l’bais yaakov etc)
All the bnei yisroel slept in for mattan Torah.
Presumably, also the women.
Therefore women should also stay up all night (learning the torah related to her mitzvos or torah she’biksav with meforshim etc).
Is this a new chumrah I should start this year? There is enough time to campaign this to hundreds of women worldwide!.
Please do. let us know how it goes. Although it might come under the general category of mitzvas asay shehhazmon grama.
The women need to sleep to properly be able to serve the menfolks the meals and keep the house clean.
There is no issur to do this. But judging on Girsa Deyankuta, this was never done.
Women don’t need a kapara for sleeping in. They do it every day when their husbands are out at the 5:30 shiur or the 6:00 shacharis. Ever been in a Jewish bakery before 7:00 AM? Only male customers!
(HT: PBA)
No, but some feminists do it, for attention.
RG, No, they don’t have the mitzva of limud torah. Maybe according to you women should have a minyan and lain?
According to the Kol Bo women are exempt from dependent mitzvos because their first responsibility is to the husband and families. Therefore it is wrong to deprive them from sleep.
I am up for Shavuos but not the whole night. I don’t like to daven like a zombie.
Yes to take care of the children that are crying at night
And by the way women should maybe start going to Kollel
Go for it!
Who’s going to take care of the kids in the morning?
“I am up for Shavuos but not the whole night. I don’t like to daven like a zombie.”
Don’t mean to attack, but aren’t you davaning to Hashem, which he himself would want you to stay up all night?
Where does feeling like a zombie come into the picture?If your excuse is because it’s hard to stay up then fine, but blaming it on Davaning doesn’t make sense. (Unless there is some heter)
All this assuming you are a male
You call yourself a chosid, don’t you think it is important to daven with some kavonoh? They also have a later minyan, so obviously not everyone is up for the whole night.
Chosid, How old are you? Obviosly I said that from my experience of being up the whole night and at davenen I fell asleep and was unable to concetrate. It says אל תדין את חבירך עד שתגיע למקומו.
Midwesterner: Not sure if you are married or ever had kid, but if by some chance you were and someone asked your wife if she “slept in” every AM, she would probably assume the person posing the question was either clueless or otherwise dysfunctional. Feeding a newborn baby at all hours of the night and early AM, getting many kids up and dressed in the AM, preparing their breakfast and in some cases packing a lunch, and getting themselves dressed and dropping off the kids at school or the bus stop and to work means they are up and about early AM. Most women would love to run off to minyan at 6 AM and leave all the above to their husbands.
“The women need to sleep to properly be able to serve the menfolks the meals and keep the house clean.“
I thought that was the goytas job
lakern: I understand why you do what you do. at least 50% of my shul does the same thing, stay up learning then go home and sleep for a few hours and come back for the minyan scheduled for our regular starting time. Maybe choaaid ahould listen to some of Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky’s speches. There is one in which he refers to it as the least insprired shachris of the year for the exact reason that you cited.
It isn’t even necessary for men to stay up all night. The minhag only got serious in the late middle ages when coffee and tea arrived in the Middle East and Europe, allowing caffeine ingestion to allow Jews to stay awake!!! 😉
Charlie: What is your source for the contention that staying up all night does not predate the advent of coffee and tea?
If I refer you to seforim hakedoshim that predate the popularization of coffee/tea, that state the minhag to stay up all night, will you retract your mistaken notion?
laskern
Sorry didn’t mean to get personal.
Your wording through me off. “Zombie” as your personal comfort
But yes If it’s ממעיט your kavona, there is probably a some heter. Also I’m not sure if the minhag was (I think minhag arizal) was expected by everyone.Yes I do care about davaning bekavona and try to, but I’m far from being a perfect Yid.
The question is what’s more important the night of shvuos staying up all night or davaning with kavona the next day. (I don’t have an answer, maybe I should learn little more about the topics)
But let’s be honest here would you not go to some party/ wedding etc because it’s going to distribute your kavona?
I would go to the wedding (Maybe I got to work on myself)Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying your a bad guy in any shape or form. It’s just something that we should all think about regarding compromising on עבודת ה for עבודת ה’ but not compromising own daily stuff for עבודת ה’.
This is not you specifically, it’s everyone INCLUDING ME.I don’t think anyone HAS TO stay up.
It’s a nice thing to do if you can.
Old people, young people, sick people cannot.
Mother’s who must take care of children; cannot.
Single women, mothers with kids all married – sure why not? Where I live there’s shuirs for women up until 4-5 AMEven Men don’t have a chiyuv to stay up all night. Its just something we took up9n ourselves to make up for klal Yisroel sleeping at matan Torah. But it’s not a chiyuv.
If it is a chiyuv then please post where in halacha it says every man must stay up shavuous all night.
Joseph,
As I’m sure you know, there are three nights a year when there is an “inyan” to stay up all night. Yom Kippur, Hoshana Rabba and Shavuos. The one with the least mekor is Shavuos. It is nevertheless the one which is most kept, possibly due to being the shortest night of those three. What I think charliehall means, is that of course many kedoshim stayed up on Shavuos, but the hamon am only caught on to this when it became more possible.lowerourtuition11210, personally I always found Shavuos davening the most inspiring after a ‘whole’ night learninmg (max 2.5 hours in northern England), and stood all the way through and felt very uplifted. It is the only time everyone is there on time and davens together. This was all until I joined my current shul, where very very sadly, they plapper through the davening in very quick time. I sadly go home to sleep. But I happily come back for the ‘main’ minyan with my family.
This is the problem. When people make the ikar tafel and the tafel ikar. Of course it’s a nice custom to stay up all night but it’s not a chiyuv of yehareg ve’al yaavor. What’s so difficult to understand? Why does everything have up be so complicated. Of you can stay up, great. If you can’t, no worries.
Geordie613: You missed an important one. Shvi’i Shel Pesach. The three are Shvi’i Shel Pesach, Shavuot and Hashana Rabba. Never heard YK.
G613: Yes you are farther north than the USA and EY where haneitz hachama is around 5:30 AM. SO many people (who do not normally stay up all night to learn find it difficult learning from approximately 10:30 PM to 4:30 AM and then daven. Please also remember that in EY they not only say Akdomus but also lein megilas Rus and say yizkor.
To chosid
You keep mentioning that there ”may ” be a heter
What pray tell is the possible issur?
Going to sleep then? So make a shomer.As to the main point im shocked nobody mentioned. The reason to stay up all night is to attone for sleeping late at מתן תורה AND THE FACT THAT THEY WOKE UP EARLY FOR THE חטא העגל.
the women did not do the עגל so there is no reason for them to stay up all night
(unless of course you can’t afford a goyta)YO, I think it’s in the Mishna Brura, I’ll have a look later.
Lower…, Nacht generally Shavuos time is around 11pm, alos 1.45 and misheyakir is 2.30 ish. So we have to rush a seuda and get back to shul to learn something before alos.
RG, learn how to translate something correctly. It doesn’t say to live the year, otherwise one being up yearly will never die. It means he wiil not die suddenly before his time.
There is a famous story where the GRA and the Dubner Magid where together Shavous night. The GRA was saying Tikun Leil Shavuos and the Dubner Magid was learning. He was asked, why don’t you say Tikun Leil Shavuos like the GRA? He said I will give you a parable. If a peddler shows samples to his customers, it only makes sense if he has it in a storeroom. The GRA is well learned so can show samples, but I have to acquire my merchandize first by learning.
RG, This is quoted from the Ari z’l sefer kakvonos and it does not say yashlim hashono.
RG, Yashlim Shanaso means he will complete his alloted years.
As stated before the women don’t have the mitzva of limud Torah personally but get the mitzva and benefit when they encorage their husbands to stay up.
I forgot, also I see many newlyweds at late night shavous shuirs who don’t have kids yet.
RG, What the klugeryid says as his name, makes sense. It says by the eigel Shmos 32,6 וישכימו ממחרת
We find a similar idea by Rosh Chodash. It was given to the women as a reward because they were first to contribute to the mishkan but had to be forced to contribute to the eigel.
joseph, are you saying women are not allowed to stay up or they shouldn’t? If it is not allowed, why not?
Mr. Rebbetzin: The only exception to the halachic discouragement/prohibition for women to learn Torah shebal peh, is Pirkei Avos. No other part of Mishna or Gemora other than simple halachos they’re obligated in.
RG, Still the father is not suppose to teach his daughter because of tiflus because their learning is not the same as men, deepening into it. Their learning is as the daf yomi (oberfleflich) general knowledge more emphasis on the halochos. According to Rav Oehlbaum, bichas hatorah is a birchas Hahoduah and not a birchas hamitzva and therefore women are also responsible to say it as they also have a part in Torah.,
RG, what is all the proof from מקרא? Where does it say gemora?
Minhag Chabad is to stay up learning until Alos Hashachar, and then to go to sleep until regular davening time, so we can daven like chassidim, not tired plapelling.
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