DO NOT JUDGE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m so sorry you went through that. It’s so very hurtful to be judged.

I think it’s good that you can be kind to yourself and notice how you’re trying. We’re all on a path to try to be better. I don’t blame you for your anger.

What she said was uncalled for, and certainly at a simcha (but let’s not be judgmental 🙂 .

It sounds like she’s lacking tact and GOOD judgement about if, when and how to say something… A good person to stay away from.

Stick with your friends who care about you and will support you in your growth and don’t “let the turkeys get you down!”

Winnie the Pooh: People who don’t think probably don’t have brains; rather, they have grey fluff that’s blown into their heads by mistake.

Why is it so difficult to dress Tniyusdik??

Do we think Hashem wants us to play games with His/Our Shulchan Aruch?

Then we daven for health, shidduchim , good children…….. and get upset if things don’t go the way WE want……

Skiaddict, I am sorry, but I’ll be frank. “Mind your own business” is not a Jewish attitude. Not judging is a Christian thing. Trying is just not good enough – you have to be dressed properly.

Imagine, someone is a murder or a rapist. He tries to control it, but he is not perfect. So, sometimes, he kills or attacks women. You would not judge him either?

ski, I’m sorry for the pain you went through. You are absolutely right. The person that said these things did a terrible thing.

And aries is right, it is really important to try to not let other people’s judging hurt you. It’s unfortunate that there are so many people like that. I’ve had to live half my life being judged unfairly by people for something that wasn’t even my choice, and it hurt a lot. But I try very hard to not let it bother me. That is how I am still happy and functioning day to day. If I’d let the pain from these people go into me, I wouldn’t survive.

It is wonderful that you acknowledge certain areas that you can improve in. That is a great thing. Keep it up, and try to not let other people’s judging bother you.

Skiaddict: I truely feel for your predicament..

though I would like to share another wedding scenario with you from yesterday. I was at a chasuna where aniece of the machateneste came dressed in a fashion shall we say different than the whole family. The wedding was quite crowded, but I noticed everyone looking at her, pitying her. It really was awful. The reason is this neice was not brought up this way and only changed her attire within this year. people who knew her before looked at her with shock.Can we say that the crowd of almost 1000 people were all closed minded or shallow. I am not here to judge that. I have one question, if she loves her aunt, why couldnt she dress accordingly just for the chasuna, so as not to stick out and make everyone turn around? When someone not frum from my family attends our simchas, they respect our beliefs and comes dressed accordingly. Why cant someone brought up with the same beliefs have the same respect?

So, this person had/has a problem with communication. Don’t judge her too harshly. She’s working on her problem too…

All you people who are judging skiaddict all over again: While what this person said might have technically been correct, you CAN’T say what they did was right. Reproof that is not given with the proper intent (that it should be accepted and utilized) is not real tochacha, and is not only hurtful and counterproductive – it’s stam not right.

And I must say, mdd, to draw a parallel between a bas yisroel struggling with tznius and murderers/rapists is very off-color.

“..a woman commented to my friend that she is shocked at something i was wearing,…”

“..The wedding was quite crowded, but I noticed everyone looking at her, pitying her. It really was awful…”

I notice that an important aspect of these weddings is for (all) the female guests to inspect all other guests in order to ascertain whether each one is obeying the rules of the game. Violators will be notified and punished by social banishment from the club. There is no second chance. If the behavior is corrected, one will say, “Look at her now, but I once saw her….”

This behavior, not new of course but increasingly prevalent, is a recipe for creating a dysfunctional cult-like society. It should be strongly discouraged despite the dubious psychological lift one gets from feeling superior to others.

Absolutely not! There is a tremendous difference between saying “your relative should be ashamed because of you” and saying “you know, it’s probably not proper to be wearing such a thing. Maybe next time you should do… (obviously depending on how not Tznius it is and what type of lack of Tznius it is).” Just because Skiaddict did something not Tznius does not give someone a right to be rude to her. And saying it to her friend is pure Lashon Harah and not Tochachah in the slightest. There is no excuse for that whatsoever, regardless of what other wrongs may have been committed by other people at the same time.

1. What the woman said was not tochacha, it was pure lashon harah. Not only that, but the “friend” was over rechilus for repeating the lashon harah.

2. Rabbaim, since you could not possibly know what Ski was wearing, your comment was was pointless and mean spirited.

Sam2, drei nit ken kup, if both of the women saw an obvious violation of Halocha, it is not loshon hora to make a comment about it between themselves.

Hi skiaddict.

I am sorry you had to experience that. Sadly, there are people around us who are too blunt

for their own good, and the insult to injury is they give themselves permission to be blunt

in the name of righteousness, when it is really arrogance.

I am sure we all experienced the same kind of thing.

Ski addict

Yatzmich made a very important point. What your friend did was rechilus.

She had a choice to say nothing or tell you later…. You suffered at the wedding because of her choice.

I think you really need to address with her first why she elected to tell you this at the wedding.

I decided once a while back that if someone had something wrong with their outfit (a loose hem, a stain, an ill fit, etc) I would say nothing if they were in a place they could no longer correct it. What were you supposed to do once already at the wedding? You could have left, but you wouldn’t do that unless you agreed that you could not appear in that condition. You did not fully agree or you wouldn’t have showed up like that. So saying anything, unless you’d listen, would be futile, and would only serve to make you feel judged and uncomfortable. You can blame the judge for judging, but you might want to look to the speaker (your friend) for speaking. She DID NOT do you any favors.

The truth is, if you’re going to dress noticeably different in a way that a community doesn’t accept and that makes them uncomfortable, it might be a bit unrealistic to expected people to hold back their shock and dismay. That being said, they weren’t going to change your clothes or opinion that night (so, although, it might be hard to withhold shock, words can be withheld, unless meant to help).

Years ago my husband repeated a very hurtful comment that a friend of his made about me (“doesn’t it bother you that so and so is so wide?”). I was so hurt and angry and spitting mad at this friend for talking about me this way to my chassan. Only later I realized I would never had known about the comment had my DH not told me his friend said that. WHY did he have to tell me?? It wasn’t like I didn’t realize this about myself. All my DH accomplished was to drive a wedge between me and his close friend (and wife) who I no longer wish to associate with.

Talk to your friend and ask her why she told you. I would also ask yourself why you chose to wear something that you probably knew would draw negative attention. You might be crying out to be accepted no matter who you are or how you choose to live. That might be unrealistic. We choose communities, yeshivas, friends, shidduchim in a way that allows us to protect our loved ones, keep them pure from outside influences.

By dressing different you are shouting “I am different”. People don’t see the path; only the confused state, and that scares them.

I think we need to be who we truly are in order to grow, but you might want to show it only to those you know you can trust who will love you, support you in your growth, and not fear your confusion.

Since we do not know what you were wearing, it may have been only that woman’s subjective perception that it was not tzniusdig (i.e., a color she disapproves of). Only you know for certain if that is the case. In any case, the woman was totally out of line to make a comment to your friend (if she really was concerned about you she should have approached you discreetly herself). If you are working on your tznius, kol hakavod. That woman needs to work on her L”H problem.

popa: Is that wearing pants without a skirt you’re talking about? Why would that be muttar?

Oomis

Ski admitted she saw a problem with her outfit and tried to correct it unsuccessfully, so it does not sound like it was this other woman’s subjective opinion alone. I agree, the other woman had NO business talking about ski. But, would ski have known about it had her friend not told her?? Why, ski, did your friend tell you??? Please speak with her and tell her the pain it caused you.

I think if we’re going to analyze whether people have a right to judge, we need to distinguish between judging in one’s mind from SPEAKING about those judgements. The Torah does say “Dan leaf zechus”, so, yes, we are expected to control our judgements. It also says “lifnei iver lo titen…..”. This might be a misapplication of those words, but people are essentially blind to your level and striving. When you behave in a way that is not in line with traditional orthodox thinking (which can vary from community to community, such as wearing red, having a seam sewn onto the back of stockings, etc) it is like a michshol…. Like seeing someone walking into McDonalds. They cannot guess that a person needs the bathroom, or is a diabetic and must get a soda fast….

Maybe it’s just expecting too much. I don’t know…. I imagine, I’ll probably get a lot of flack for this……, but it’s something to think about.

Pop, As a kid, I remember seeing short features of folks skiing the old fashioned Nordic way. The women, not Jewish by the way, were skiing in long skirts. If you can find ski or travel magazines from the Thirties and Forties, you can see the pictures. However, I don’t believe that modern Alpine skiing can be done safely wearing a skirt.

MDD: Not true. Learn Hilchos Lashon Harah. And even it a case where it was Muttar, saying it in that way is definitely not allowed.

popa: Is that wearing pants without a skirt you’re talking about? Why would that be muttar?

I don’t know. But I heard it is, from a reliable source.

R.I. The punch line to that joke is, …by then you’ll be a mile away and you’ll have his shoes.” I think I heard that joke from Stephen Wright but it may be older.

once heard this….

“Why judge man today, if God waits until the end of his days”

Skiaddict, “Ma tovu!” does not apply to overlooking aveiros and pretending everything is fine.

vayeitzei: There are those who have compassion and really care about the person and try to help them not sin,and then there those who just talk and say this one is wrong, that one is a kofer. There is a way to go about things. If someone really cares about the other person and then gives him/her tochacha, usually the other party is not insulted, wouldn’t you agree. There is an idea which says take tochacha from anywhere it comes,and separate the person from their words and act upon them.