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I am marrying off my last child BH, and i don’t want to do that dance for one simple reason. A lot of my friends have older single children and i don’t want to cause them any pain etc. Is my reason valid or not?
The “mazinka” dance is against halacha since it involves mixed dancing.
(Mod – Hopefully I am being specific enough. Thanks)
I think your reason is valid and commendable.
why don’t you ask your rav? it sounds like you would need the guidance of a higher authority, rather than a bunch of ppl who will all give you different answers based on their (humble) opinions.
~{]*YC*[}~
Grandmaster- at wedding where there is NO mixed dancing, like in my family, we do the dance according to Halacha. (Mother with kallah or father with Chosson.)
Guess what? We can follow Halacha and have normal lives. Not everything someone mentions is done in a wrong fashion.
GRANDMASTER- A Mitzvah Tantz also has mixed dancing.
Bowwow – A Mitzvah Tantz does not have mixed dancing. 1) The women are all seated. 2) The Kallah just stands holding a gartel. 3) It long after midnight after all non-immediate family left. (And if anyone violates the rules and does it incorrectly, then you might be correct that it is wrong of them.)
smartcookie – Then it isn’t a mazinka dance. It is something else you reinvented. The mazinka dance idea comes from non-frum origination.
we did it in June, B’H.. it was @ the very end & most people were gone.
for the first two weddings we had a mitzva tantz, when my father-in-law was still alive… in ‘the year’ for my mother-in-law, a’h.
for the 3rd wedding we made last year, the machatunim didn’t hold by mitza tantz, & we were so burnt out from the wedding preps that we didn’t mind not having one either; plus, my DH said that his father’s not with us anymore anyhow.
the mezinka was done by all 4 of our children & 4 grandchildren.. they had alot of fun. afterwards, I did a little sweep. it was basically done @ the end of the affair, when a mitza tantz would’ve been done.
I don’t see anything wrong with you having it, but if you choose not to, I’m sure that’ll be fine, too. I can’t imagine, tho’, that your friends would begrudge you doin’ the clean sweep, cuz if they’re in attendance, then they know you’re marrying off your last child & I would hope, would be happy for you.
would it be causing them any more pain then the mere fact that you’re marrying off a child?! .. JMHO
Furthermore smartcookie, did the women by your simcha dance in front of the men or was it behind the mechitza? The 5th is an option you can choose.
Grandmaster- no we dance separate- not in the men’s section.
Anyway, b4 attacking the OP that it’s against Halacha, maybe ask exactly how it will be done.
When a Frum woman asks such a question, it should be assumed that they will do it in accordance with Halacha.
That’s like asking if it is okay to eat bacon, but when you are told “no”, someone piping in and saying perhaps they meant OU certified imitation bacon.
No grandmaster- because the OP didn’t ask if it’s OK to do the Mezinka Dance. She asked a question about her DOING it. So obviously, if they do the dance, it’s in a Kosher enough way.
*bangin’ head against the wall*
someone’s ‘certifiable’ around here… is it me?! :-O
smartcookie – This is the basic idea of the Mezinka Dance. And like noted, it originates from the non-frum Jewish “movements”:
The Mezinka dance during a Jewish wedding reception is honoring the parents who have just married off their last child.
It consists of a different type of circle dance where the parents are seated on chairs in the middle of the dance floor. The bride and groom stand by their side and present their parents by crowning them with flower crowns.
The guests create a circle and dance around them. They first start a line and kiss each of the parents saying “Mazel Tov” and the circle formation begins.
There is specific music written for the Mezinka (Mezinke) and it usually starts out slow then the tempo speeds up in a joyful celebration.
It involves inter-gender kissing, inter-gender holding hands, inter-gender dancing, etc. Sure, you can do it completely differently, but then it isn’t a mezinka dance. And why call it something that is inherently anti-Torah and comes from frei folks?
BTW smartcookie, by yours, was the mechitza up and blocking the men from seeing the women dancing?
Ok grand- I hear you. You’re taking the term very literal.
I’m not sure how others do it, but yes, in our family the Mechitzas never come down. Never.
(Only by Mitzvah Tantz)
But I still wouldn’t judge others like you do. I would be them Dan Lkaf ZChus that they (hopefully) got some Heter.
And believe me, I don’t either understand how mixed dancing can ever be allowed, but who am I to judge?
In the next world, we each have to give a Din Vcheshbon, and until then, every Yid is free to follow the Torah in whichever way they understand is right.
there is no mekor for this mihuk..its ‘monkey see monkey do’
The bottom line here is that there is no mitzvah to do a mezinka dance. If you want to skip it because it will make other people uncomfortable, then by all means, skip it. The marriage will be 100% kosher without it.
The Wolf
I commend you for your thoughtfulness, but this is your simcha, it is your last child, and you have the right to enjoy the trappings without feeling the concern that you do. What are you going to do when they have children – not tell your grandchildren-less friends about the bris?
‘I’m a monkeyyyyyyyyyyyyyy’!! (kudos, Rolling Stones).
sorry, I just had to get that out from today’s postings in toto.
selicha!!
Oomis- I very strongly, yet respectfully disagree.
Certain things you cannot hide- pregnancy, children….
But other things don’t have to be advertised.
Keeping the grandchildren a secret, will only hurt her friends.
But not dancing Mezinka with her child in public, is being sensitive and thoughtful.
It’s not SO major, that the wedding cannot be without it.
Grandmaster I’m finaly getting why everybody likes bashing you, you just love to use frumkeit to bash other people, While its no mitzvah to have a muzinikal dance its not an aveirah eigther. we had one and there was notting about what you described, MIL felt a milion dancing with the broom with all married children behind the mechitzah the men didn’t even know about it.
deiyezooger: It most certainly is an aveira. For the many reasons outlined. If it is a mazinka dance, and not something else going by that name. If it is something else going by that name, then it is just dumb. a) It isn’t a mazinka. b) A mazinka comes from the frei, so why call it something like that?
The word “mazinka” means the youngest child, so “mazinka dance” means to dance with the youngest child, to assume people are doing it in an assur way thats an aveirah of being people dan lekaf choiv when its so easy to be dan lekaf zchus.
By definition the dance means doing many assur things. If you skip all that, it isn’t a mazinka dance. You dance with your youngest child during the entire wedding too, that doesn’t make it a mezinka. It is more than just the broom/sweep, it includes mixed dancing with both parents in the same circle, etc. The mezinka is the type of dance that originated under that name by the frei Jews. A Torah Jew shouldn’t be associating with that anymore than with any other “kashered” junk from the Reform.
Smartcookie, I would hate to be the friend who makes people feel they must walk around on eggshells around me. People eventually begin to resent that person for not allowing them to feel and enjoy their simcha publicly and to the fullest. So while I see your point, I too, respectfully and strongly disagree with you. Better that those friends should stay home and not cause the baal simcha to feel bad for expressing his own joy.
I have three children as yet unmarried, two are girls in the older category. Hashem knows my true heart, that every single wedding I go to, and even where the kallah is very young (meaning 19-22), I am VERY much b’simcha for my friends who are zochim to marry off that child. I daven that I would likewise be zochah, but I would hate to see myself as a person who cannot feel joy for others,even when I am not feeling it (yet) for myself. And even more, I would HATE for my friends to feel they could not share good news of theirs with me, for fear that it will “hurt” me to hear it. I believe that every mazel tov we wish others with a full heart, is credited to us, that we should hear it from others, as well.
last march when i got married since i am the only child my mother insisted that we have a mazinka. my husband was like no why would we? then of course she didnt listen and we did it! we had a blast! remember this YOUR simcha! do whatever YOU want to do! If your child wants it then do it! Again, this is YOUR simcha, not your friends!
Also, I know that Oomis was very mesameach at my wedding and she enjoyed it tremendously!
The “mazinka” dance is against halacha since it involves mixed dancing.
Oh, silly me… and I just danced with my wife earlier in the week. 🙂
The Wolf
The whole concept of the mezinka was in fact taken from not frum concepts and with the passage of time people became less concerned about the idea and it became more acceptable. Unlike Joseph however I know you were never in a million years planning to have mixed dancing.
The reason many Rabbonim are against the practice aside from the origin is what takes place during the dancing. Many choshuve rabbanim feel it is against Jewish ideals to show that you have now swept your kids out of the house on their own. A Jewish parent should always demonstrate that the house is always open even if the child is married on their own, and mommy and daddy are always there IYH especially when they become bubby and Zaydie and that parents always show concern and have you in mind in their tefilos .
A few Rabbonim that I have heard directly from have said that a Jewish Parents Job is never done, by demonstrating a dance with the broom it is as if you are showing you did your job to marry off your kids to send them off into the world and now you can be patered(exempted) from your kids lives.BH it is a tremendous accomplishment,and should be celebrated and obviously not all rabbonim feel this way. Everyone should have Yiddishe Nachas and may you have mazel and Bracha whatever your decision.
In the Zchus that you are thinking of your friends may your friends always think of you
The Mezinka Tanz is taken from an old Hungarian custom. when the last child gets married in the Velt, there is a celebration of their comparison to our “Boruch Shpatrani”.
In the secular world a marriage is a subtraction, by the Yidden it is a multiplication. Therefore there is no mekor for doing a Mezinka tanz other than “minhag hagoyim”
bbubbee – I believe it comes from the Ukrainians, not Hungarians. I also think the word comes from a Ukrainian dialect for youngest daughter . (The youngest sons were added when the womens libbers demanded equality in all matters.)
When i refused the mezinka before my youngest sons wedding my son in learning found a sefer where the minhag is written so we went along with it. I will try to get the name of the sefer.No it was not in sefer Taam Haminhagim.
By us the women did the mezinke on the womens side with me and close family and then the men got the brooms and did the dance with my husband on the mens side.The musicians played the correct tune for the men but on our side it was the music they were playing at the time as they were on the men’s side.
There was no mixing chas v’shalom and the mechitza was a full wall. There were also alot of Choshiva people as guests.
Unfortunately, some people take a minhag and add flavor to it and ignore halachos.No Chassidishe minhag includes mixing. In fact in many Chassidishe circles,the kalla’s face is covered with a veil when she dances Mitzva Tanz.
The only “sefer” is by Hankus Netsky, founder of the Klezmer Conservatory Band and professor of Jewish music at the New England Conservatory, where it is brought that the “minhug” shtams from a non-Jewish Ukrainian folk custom that was picked up by the irreligious Jews.
savta1,there’s nothing wrong with doing it. your friends will be happy for you,maybe you can even daven for them a few min. b4 the dance.(we should all have such problems such as these) mazel tov !
Yogi – I hope I WAS at your wedding, and even if not, I am nonetheless very happy for you!!!!!!!!!!
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