do goyim have bchira chofshis?

That’s a great question. I’m not positive I know the answer, and I suspect that the answer actually has multiple levels. Here are some thoughts:

1. All people were created b’tzelem Elokim, with a body from below and a soul from above. That soul is what separates us from the animals. That soul was put into Adam HaRishon, who was not a Jew, for he was the root of all humanity.

Adam HaRishon and Chava were given free choice to follow Hashem’s commands or not. They didn’t have a yetzor hara until eating from the Etz HaDaas, but they still had the ability to sin, though they didn’t have the inclination for it. Theoretically, they could have rebelled for the sake of rebellion, but it was like a person who knows he CAN run naked in the street but has no desire to do so.

Animals, unlike humans, have a different type of soul — one that craves comfort, good food, procreation, etc., but it is not a soul endowed with free choice, for it runs only on instinct.

Human beings have the ability to override instinct for the sole purpose of doing what Hashem wants. That goes for all of us… However….

2. Here’s where I’m venturing a tentative guess: I think that people can lose free choice when they’ve pushed the mitzvos far enough away. But to be clear, I haven’t actually studied this inyan. I just know that Paroah’s heart became hard after he rejected Hashem’s words one time too many.
I may be wrong on this entire premise.

3. That said, from what I’ve heard is that when a Yid does a mitzvah, it creates a natural consequence that affects the non-Jews, de-activating, on some level, antisemitism.
Hashem created this world with many laws, and one of them is that when the Jews behave corruptly, the non-Jews retaliate with hatred. I THINK this is more of a klal aspect, but individuals within that Klal should retain free choice until the point that they forfeit it.

Every person — Jew or non-Jew — has the ability to turn to Hashem and serve Him.
Or not.

It says by Pharaoh that he was taken away the free choice. I think the meaning is that the help that we have against the yetzer hara was taken away from him. In Parashas Bo they ask the question about free choice where the Dubner Maggid explains that Pharaoh originally did not want but the makus changed his mind, so his freedom of choice was restored.

Once again, Avira is wrong

I think I like what avira is saying

I would say also that bchirah applies only to Mitzvos

There is no such thing as more bechira or less. It is a yes or no question. It is not even a question that of course all humans have bechira. (bechira for angels is a harder question).
It may be harder for some people to choose right over wrong but that does not mean more or less bechira. It is also harder for some Jews to choose right over wrong. If a Jew grows up in South Dakota and never met a frum Jew in his life it will be very difficult for him to chose and decide to follow the Torah. Someone with a physical handicap is also challenged in different ways. No one would say a Jew in a wheelchair has less bechira than his friend who is not.

Shimon – that’s exactly why goyim can marry their sisters according to many rishonim – baruch shekivanta. There is a rational reason however not to, which is that people have a disgust of such a marriage…it also results in birth defects.

I think eiver min hachai is very rational; Hashem does not want us to build bad middos in ourselves, and torturing animals or benefitting from their direct unnecessary suffering will do that.

CT – I should have been clearer. In theory theres no limit to the bechira in and of itselr. The limiting factor is Hashem’s control over our actions, versus what he lets us decide to do. The baalei machshava, including the ramchal and chovos halevavos (I’ll have to get the sources if need be) say that we only control that which has a moral significance. For a Jew, this includes virtually everything we do, because the chovos halevavos says that there’s no such thing as a “pareve” action – everything ultimately is either doing what Hashem wants or the opposite. I realize this may be a chiddush to some and i will imyh get the mekoros when i have some free time.

It follows then that goyim make far less decisions which have moral implications, therefore a lot of what they think they’re deciding is just Hashem running the world and using them as shluchim.

Farby, you have a geshmake way of spelling ‘choick.’ Not bad.

To novelty, avirah:

You’re assuming the entire reason for AMH is that baalei chaim. Aside from being a midah raah, it could be it’s only derabanan.
From the pashtus of the pasuk, it seems there is a much deeper reason of damo benafsho.

Additionally, (what I had in mind initially) there are many ways to do AMH without causing pain to the animal. But it would still be the exact same isur.
For example, if the animal was out cold. Or if it was one of those animals that can regenerate a limb, so eating that limb would be irrelevant to the animal. I can probably think of other examples.

Regarding sisters, it’s not the mainstream opinion that goyim can marry them. The gemara says a ger cannot marry his sister even after they are both megayer because we don’t want him to enter from chumra to kula (meaning he has a chumra beforehand.) I saw somewhere but don’t remember where, that he can marry his sister from his father but not from his mother.

My point was that it is possible they do have chukim. Not saying for sure, but it seems that way. How would it impact their bechira if we say they do have chukim?

If it was an even pull, you’d have about the same number of tzadikim as reshaim. This is not the case, however. See in the beginning chapters of Derech Hashem. The Ramchal explains there that after the chet shel etz hadaas, the natural pull is mostly tipped to the side of choshech and gashmi. It’s an uphill battle, but there is siyata dishmaya for those who make the effort

It’s the first step

Goyim don’t have bechira like us yidden. They are attached like a magnet to their taivos and desires. We yidden are LUCKY that we have bechira and don’t have to fall to these taivos.

Who explains the Maharal?

I really don’t chap how you never knew that you have Bchira! Yes, you can choose to good. And you can choose to do bad. Look at last week’s parshah, Hashem gave Eisav Bchira, he could choose to do bad, so he was and for generations on driven to do bad. Yaakov also had Bchira, and he chose to do good, that’s why Klal Yisrael os driven to do good. But we still have free choice, int he haggadha we say we are Bnei Chorin (someone is gonnna say that it’s out of context because we said we were slaves and now we’re free, but we learn from here that we are still free people).

Ober Chochom, I didn’t mean to get you excited. You stated your belief buy still didn’t say how you know.

Reb Eliezer, you stated the proof — the one and only proof — of there is punishment there must be choice, or else it would not be deserved. Don’t non-Jews get punished as well?

That us why goyim only have 7 mitzvos as they have less bechira as stated above in Tosfas in Kedushin.

Halevi, what is the difference between the two? You have a choice that is unhindered and not dictated by hashgocha. That choice is limited to good vs bad, which is what we’ve been saying all along. Free will for other matters doesn’t exist.

As it happens to be, halevi wasn’t even attacking you, or trying to upshlug you. Asking you for a source is just a question one asks when unconvinced by a statement without textual proof

Avira, I’m not bothered by anything. I am pointing out that being that the whole basis of free will is derived from S’char V’Onesh, and that therefore is applies to anyone who is subject to S’char v’Onesh. If you expect Nazis to be burning in Gehenom you have to assume that they had a choice.

And so, I began by asking and you answered accordingly. My main objective was to build upon your answer.

And yes, Chazal do say הכל מן השמים חוץ מיראת שמים, and that would seem to imply that our will is completely free. It also says in Bava Basra (16a) that Iyov wanted to claim that our will is predetermined. However, Chazal aren’t really taking on directly the philosophical concept of free, undetermined will. It is the Rambam who solidified that.

As for הכל צפוי, even though the Rambam does utilize it that way, it isn’t the straightforward meaning. Others don’t take it that way.

Halevi, when i say “bothered by” I’m using the yeshivishe expression. As in, “what’s bothering rashi?”. Meaning i thought i understood what prompted you to say whar you said. After your clarification i think i get what you were saying earlier.

Re, iyov – Iyov was a tzadik who we learn lessons from, not to mean that we follow all of his hava aminas. The fact that he may have been unsure or originally mistaken regarding a certain idea can be explained by the fact that he wasn’t even Jewish according to many shitos. The seforim say that yaakov avinu had “hava aminas” as well regarding hashgocha as being strictly from the top down, until he saw the malachim “olim veyordim bo”, olim first from this eorld, that our actions impact the celestial realms. That maskana is what we go by.

I think every generation of teachers says that they have the most disrespectful generation ever… And they’re all right! It just keeps getting worse and worse. My students say and do things that the worst of my classmates never would have dreamt of

“Halevi, when i say “bothered by” I’m using the yeshivishe expression. As in, “what’s bothering rashi?”.”

I understood. I don’t have that much time to spell out every branch. Besides, usually I’d be doing this from a phone which makes it take even longer. But I used “bothered” back the same way, as in, I don’t have a “Shverekeit”.