Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Do frum burial associations allow non-Shomer Shabbos or Footsteps people?
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November 10, 2011 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #600455chalilavchasMember
I think frum burial associations limit their plots to those who are Shomer Shabbos.
Specifically, would they allow a Footsteps member (mockers and knockers of frumkeit) to be buried among frum people, if they have family members there, if they knew that the deceased was a member (Footsteps)?
November 11, 2011 1:03 am at 1:03 am #825489chalilavchasMemberAnyone had a non-Shomer Shabbos relative who wanted to be buried with Shomer Shabbos family? How does that work? Is there a problem?
November 11, 2011 2:27 am at 2:27 am #825490Sam2ParticipantThe Gemara in Sanhedrin says “Ain Kovrin Tzaddik Eitzel Rasha”. I have no idea what is done Lema’aseh.
November 11, 2011 6:38 am at 6:38 am #825491ronrsrMemberwhy would you deprive any Jew of a dignified burial with his/her family?
November 11, 2011 6:57 am at 6:57 am #825492Sam2ParticipantIf the Halacha doesn’t allow it (I said if, I don’t claim to know any Halachos about this) then that would be a good reason why.
November 11, 2011 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #825493mddMemberRonsr, all this sentiments about “any Jew” are against Halocha. If a fellow is deemed to be a rasha, he is is not buried next to tzadikkim. It is a de”Oraysa to bury harugei beis din in separate cemeteries, for example.
November 11, 2011 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #825494gefenParticipantSam2
Are all non-frum ppl considered Rashaim?
November 11, 2011 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #825495Derech HaMelechMemberronsr: I think the answer to your question can be found in the statement directly above it.
November 11, 2011 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #825496chalilavchasMemberHow do we define Reshaim?
Are people who learned Torah, and subsequently became “non-believers”, and even worse, mock their frum brethren for their religious practices, considered Reshaim?
November 11, 2011 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #825497Sam2ParticipantGefen: I have no idea. I would assume that a Tinok Shenishba isn’t called a Rasha but I have no real source to say that in this case.
Rav Schachter extrapolates from a Gemara that it’s Assur to bury anyone next to someone even a little more or less righteous than his. He says that’s why each Shul/community has their own cemeteries. We assume that all members of each community for the most part do the same Mitzvos and the same Aveiros, so we bury them together.
November 11, 2011 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #825498mddMemberChalilavchas, yes.
Sam2, a real tinok she’nishba is not a rasha. He is like a regular frum Yid as far as ben le’chaveiro goes. Who is a real tinok she’nishba is a machlokes.
November 13, 2011 12:12 am at 12:12 am #825499chalilavchasMemberWhat about a member of a frum family, who used to be the frummest in the family until their twenties, and after befriending Goyim at work/university, became the lowest of the low and anti-frum?
Are they allowed to be buried with family? Who decides?
November 13, 2011 2:25 am at 2:25 am #825500mddMemberDepends if he does aveiros be’mezid. Also, it depends if his relatives were big tzadikim.
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