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An acquaintance of mine recently got married, and his wife doesn’t want him to get drunk on Purim. He, understandably, wanted to. So they approached their “rav” with their predicament, and he told the husband not to drink, as it’s not worth causing shalom bayyis problems over.
This acquaintance related this sad p’sak to me, and I immediately pointed out that a) why is it his job to compromise for shalom bayyis, and not his wife’s, and b) There’s no room for compromising Halacha for shalom bayyis, and if his wife doesn’t want him to be m’kayyeim Halachos of Shulchan Aruch, then perhaps…
He disagreed, reiterating the Open Orthodox ruling of his “rav”, and I tried to prevail, but to no avail. So I wound up and gave him a big kick l’sheim shamayim, and then sat down to type these sad words on the happy yom tov of Purim, and it’s as I do so that I recall his wife may have gone to M’chon Bayla, so all those considering that seminary, please take a moment to reconsider this story and your decision.
A Freilechen, KOSHER Purim.
Yeah, these people who follow the Rema are hopeless.
Did you ever stop to think that the decision is between your friend, his wife, and the Rav? Did you ever stop to think that their decision is really none of your business?
It’s very sad how people who are machmir on so many things throughout the year are all of a sudden meikil when it comes to Purim and the mitzvas hayom.
Do you get the cheapest esrog? Do you use a sukka kosher according to some shittos? Do you eat matza that’s shemura according to some shittos?
Mishna Berurah says the Rema’s way is the best way.
It’s very sad how people who are machmir on so few things throughout the year are all of a sudden machmir when it comes to getting drunk, at the expense of shalom bayis.
Do you get the most expensive esrog? Do you use a sukka kosher according to the Chazon Ish? Do you eat matza that you baked in a chaburah according to shitas hoRosh?
Excellent troll job.
A freilichin Purim!
Do you get the most expensive esrog? Do you use a sukka kosher according to the Chazon Ish? Do you eat matza that you baked in a chaburah according to shitas hoRosh?
We’re talking about me? I thought we’re talking about sds’s friend.
Chazon ish on sukka is a daas yochid, not the mechaber following the pashtus of the gemara and all rishonim.
Same with shitas hoRosh.
And you could you compare hiddurim in esrog that nobody holds is not kosher, with a safeik chiyuv?
I wasn’t talking about you. Get wasted gezunter heit if that’s your minhag and your wife is okay with it.
A freilichin Purim!
Oh, and yes, it’s a safek chiyuv, but also a ssfek issur. It’s not a win-win like the others (except perhaps money and time, but shalom bayis is even more important, wouldn’t you agree?).
L’chaim!
Shalom bayis is not that important. More important is not to get divorced.
I don’t know how serious the original post is, but really this young man sounds immature if he feels that this is a question for a rav. Out of love and respect for his wife, he should abide by her request, and making this an issue for a rav is childish.
Did somebody say L’chaim???
Squeak, my husband vehemently disagrees. He says Shalom Bayis is VERY important.
So if my wife says she doesn’t want me eating only shmurah matzah on Pesach, or using a nice esrog, or eating in a succah that’s only kosher according to some shittos, I should abide by her request out of love and respect and not make it an issue for the rav because it’s childish?
can you please tell me WHERE in shulchan aruch it is listed AS A HALACHA that you MUST get drunk until you don’t know the difference bet. mordechai & haman…..
if it was a HALACHA
then we would all get drunk every year just like we all light the menorah
‘??”? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ???? ?
People who don’t keep that (or any other) halachah need to do TESHUVA.
Takahmamash, if a Yid violates the Torah it is business of other Yidden to stop him. Sometimes, it is impossible, but there is an obligation be’etzem.
Flatbusher and others, sholom bais overrides Halochah only when it is openly stated by the Poskim that it does. If she wants him to eat treif, should he?
I apologize for the mistake in my previous post. I didn’t drink the correct amount of alcohol today.
Getting drunk on Purim is a mitzva dirabbanan according to some shittos. Viahavta lireacha kamocha is an asay dioraisa according to all. Slandering a seminary is an issur dioraisa too. I guess the mitzvah and chiyuv of getting drunk is so chasuv in his eyes that he feels it is permitted to set aside an asay and also violate a lav to fulfill it.
Good point. I guess I thought the post was so obviously ridiculous that it didn’t mean anything but I can change it.
If she wants him to eat treif, should he?
There is an obvious and clear difference between eating treif (an issur dioraita) and getting drunk on Purim (which, at most, is a d’rabbanan).
I don’t really understand this thread. The Rav Poskind that he shouldn’t shouldn’t get drunk. His wife doesn’t want him to get drunk so it should be simple that he should not get drunk. Why are people advising him to go against the ruling of his Rav?
Every year there are people that are rushed to the hospital for health related problems due to drinking too much, besides those who fall or get into other accidents. Is it worth it to risk your life and/or marriage just to drink on Purim?
While getting drunk MAYBE a Mitzvah the fact that your drunk and can’t daven and do other Mitzvahs far out weigh any benefit of getting drunk.
Taakhmamash, Apushatayid, so to desecrate a second day of Yom Tov (which is de’rabbonon) he should listen to her?!? The anwer is — NO. I am not going to explain the sugya here all the way, but it would start from the limud “you and your father are obligated to honor Me” from where we learn that if your father asks you to do an aveirah — you don’t listen to him. Also you have to know what exactly happened there — she did not want him to drink at all or just not go with machmiring shittos.
Also you have to know what exactly happened there — she did not want him to drink at all or just not go with machmiring shittos.
Since the story isn’t real, let’s go with a reasonable story.
A man is used to getting quite drunk on Purim, as per many shittos, and the minhag of many segments of klal Yisroel. However, his wife (like many) doesn’t want this, and in fact, is extremely upset about it.
So they go to their rav who says he should follow the Rema’s shittah, as recommended by Mishnah B’rurah, to drink more than usual and go to sleep.
The reactions here on either side are misguided.
Some feel that based on the wife’s wishes, halachah should be disregarded, and/or that it’s childish to ask a rav. Chas V’shalom! We don’t throw away the Torah based on how it makes us feel.
Others seem to think the rav is not following halachah. This is also not true. He is, after all, paskening like the Mishnah B’rurah! If the wife was amenable, maybe for this man, getting very drunk is the proper way to do the mitzvah. However, under the circumstances, he can certainly rely on the Rema’s shittah, which is, after all, what the Mishnah B’rurah holds l’chatchilah.
What if he asks his Rov the shaila and his Rov paskens that their mesora is to pasken ad dlo yoda k’peshuto, like the Mechaber says (lets say they’re Sefardic) and he must get totally drunk?
He can follow what it says in Bais Yosef.
??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????
???? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????. ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? (?:) ????? ??????? (?”? ???) ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ??”? (?: ?”? ??’) ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??”? (??) ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??’ ???? ?????? ????? (??) ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???: ???? ?????? ???? (??’ ????? ??? ??) ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ???
DY -“So they go to their rav who says he should follow the Rema’s shittah, as recommended by Mishnah B’rurah, to drink more than usual and go to sleep.”
What if you sleep first & then drink? Are you Yotzay?
Health, no, you need the wine to make you sleepy.
See Rema.
http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075
See also Shaarei Teshuvah there, who holds of getting drunk kip’shuto, but brings a raya that when difficult, he is patur.
But what if it isn’t difficult for him to get drunk k’peshuto and his mesora and his Rov’s is to pasken k’peshuto but his wife isn’t crazy over the idea?
DY -“Health, no, you need the wine to make you sleepy”
Who says?!? I did some research and found this:
“Yalkut Yosef 695:14 rules like the Orchot Chaim and makes no mention of sleeping. Rav Mordechai Eliyahu in MaAmer Mordechai 64:36 who seems to agree.”
Mdd. Thanks for twisting my words. If getting drunk is your thing go for it.
This is another marriage heading for divorce court due to outside interference. The husband has to make a choice, does he want to hang out with his friends and get drunk or remain happily married.
I don’t think the husband or his friend are ready for a long term marriage. You make a big deal about if it’s a Mitzvah to get drunk. But when the husband’s Rav rules that he shouldn’t drink I don’t think the coffee room should try to convince him to go against both his Rav and his wife.
Yeah, but did they find a new rav?
Chas VeShalom, AbbaS! Not another marriage headed for divorce court or headed to beis din, or headed anywhere at all. Just a bunch of trolls and others entertaining themselves and each other. Possibly under the influence, but I think not.
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