Different strokes for different folks

when the Coffee Room was first started, I used to enjoy reading the different topics. Now, the coffee room has basically become a “bashing forum”

Ummm, which Coffee Room are you talking about? Nothing’s changed in that regard 🙂

What you are forgetting is that there aren’t any “different folks” here. Nope, just you – all the other screen names are Joseph.

1987

“So before anyone wants to start a new topic that they KNOW will cause such discussions, please refrain.”

You forgot to take your own advice…or was this what you wanted…?

As much as I hate quoting goyim, Henry Ford said, “you can have the car in any color you like.. as long as its black”

Different? Nah, we’re all 99% indentical. Its the 1% in us, that refuses to allow us to see each other in the same light!

(honestly, 1987; read the posts on cognitive disonance or the one from a few weeks back from the BY girl with hashkafah questions) and then tell me if you still think the CR is a “bash fest”)

Blinky: Agreed.

For example, regarding all the kollel bashing that goes on here: Kollel is not right or wrong. For one guy, the right thing is for him to be in kollel, and for another guy, the right thing for him is to get a job.

Agreed

Some fathers would come into the women’s section to dance, some fathers certaintly wont.

I don’t know. While I didn’t like the “only my opinion is valid” thought that seemed to come up in that thread, it is a valid topic for conversation, and there may be a right and wrong.

Everyone can do what they deem is right, and let everyone else do what they want.

If you mean there is no right and wrong, I disagree.

For example, in the latest post about going OTD, the person describes how the coffee room is turning him off from yiddishkeit. This is a shame, and a serious problem.

I took that posters restrictions, and refrained from offering my opinion on that thread. But, that is absurd. We all know why people go OTD, and it is closer to rhyming with shmarents than shmoffee room.

That criticized, I like to think that I approach the CR with an open mind, and offer honest and sincere opinions. I think most of the posters do similarly. We can all work on it, but I think this post is mostly incorrect.

Shmeuak:

You really think so?

I suppose it doesn’t matter what you think, or what I think.

shmopa-

If it doesn’t matter what I think, what else in the world does matter?

But I do agree that it doesn’t matter what you think, unless you are agreeing with me 😉

People go off the derech for all kinds of reasons. Read the threads about OTD with the heartbroken parents’ cries and then try to say it is their fault their child made that decision. I know families that did everything right and they still had a child go OTD. It is so difficult for them already. There is no need to make it more painful by pointing the finger at them.

For one guy, the right thing is for him to be in kollel, and for another guy, the right thing for him is to get a job. Some fathers would come into the women’s section to dance, some fathers certaintly wont. Everyone can do what they deem is right, and let everyone else do what they want.

I’m sorry, but I do not agree with your approach. Life is not about ‘do what you like’ and ‘live and let live’. There is definitely a RIGHT and a WRONG, and nothing in between. Everything in life – absolutely everything – is either ???? ?’ or the opposite. There can be different shittas about whether something is right or wrong, but nothing is neither RIGHT nor WRONG. If one feels something is wrong, there is a ???? to be ????? the wrongdoer.

Of course, it is true that some people should be going to kollel and others do not have to – somebody who has no ????? and is part of the “???” of R’ Shimon bar Yochai/R’ Yishmoel – of course is not ????? to sit and learn, but should be ????? to earn for his family. Somebody who has hit the millions, and can afford to live comfortably and still learn all day is ?????? to invest his energies into ????? ?. There is no different ‘approaches’ about life; different people are given different oppurtunities by HKB”H. It most definitely is NOT a free for all, do what you like.

when posters “knock” someone else’s point of view, this only leads to sinas chinam and chillul Hashem.

This is a good point. Even if the first thing you said is not necessarily correct, and there is something wrong, there is no reason to be nasty about it. One can disagree firmly yet politely. There is no reason to turn personal when disagreeing about something.

However, there is also the other side of the coin – readers should understand that discussions get heated, and things that are not meant are said. [Normal, sane, frum] People do not mean to get personal, but sometimes in the heat of action things slip out. Readers should not be insulted, but should take things with a pinch of salt.

Also, a lot of posters here apparently have not much of a sense of humour, and cannot tell when a poster who on face value seems to be saying something ridiculously insulting and unreasonable, but is really just trying to be funny by writing something cynical or something so obviously controversial they are probably being funny (Poppa ?????) – some people have to learn not to take everything seeriously.

yekke: there are some who believe that everyone in the world should be learning and not working. you think they are wrong but you need to be considerate and tolerant of this view even if you disagree and think its wrong. similarly, rav yoel believed that the state of israel is a frustration of gods will. i may think that the dass torah which disagrees is right and that rav yoel is wrong but how can i disagree with rav yoel? i cant. i need to be tolerant of this view even if i disagree and not only that but love the jews who subscribe to this view.

i need to accept that there are beliefs i accept as true but i can’t foreclose the possibility that i am wrong and they are right. in other words, i believe in what i do but i cant say there is no other way.

there is right and wrong but you shouldnt be so sure of your rightness that you become intolerant of a view you think is wrong.

the only positions that i am intolerant of are those which justify evil and are therefore a chillul hashem. a position that its permitted to steal or kill or injure, for example.

we should be able to debate our viewpoints without being intolerant of another’s. the key is to love every jew and treat every person with respect. disagreements have always been part of the jewish dialogue. there is no reason to frustrate disagreements but there is no reason to be intolerant either.

Golfer, the Gemara is talking about a married woman. However, it should be noted that we didn’t blame the family for the fact that Miriam Bas Bilga Shmad and married out. It was her way of describing the function of the Mizbei’ach that told us she must have heard related talk in her father’s house. When people go off the Derech, they often have fond memories of things that they were fond of back in the day.

Thank you HaLeiVi.

Nothing like learning something inside from the source.

But that was a different thread.

Back to this one, that certainly puts a different perspective on things.

I still have a hard time with the thought of OTD problems resulting from bad parenting. But I may be wrong.

In case I didn’t explain myself well enough here goes. Although a person’s choice is in his own hands and we won’t necessarily point to his parents as the reason for his choices, there are still things within his behavior that we can trace back to his upbringing. When people go OTD and reflect back on their life they will describe some positive experiences along with the negative ones, to which they might attribute their general negative outlook on Judaism.

This Miriam Bas Bilga, who kicked the Mizbei’ach when she came there with her husband (a Greek sergeant) during the pillage of the Mikdash, referred to the Mizbei’ach as a wolf swallowing the money of the Jews. Even if she went off this would not have been her outlook. Why would it cross the mind of a former Jew to hate the Mizbei’ach? This is why the Rabbis concluded that there was obviously somewhat of a negative attitude that she picked up in her father’s house. As religious Jews, they obviously didn’t call the Mizbei’ach a wolf, but they might have been theorizing how they can save money from being wasted. Such as, “It’s a Shud to always bring a cow, they could bring a small sheep; there’s no Chiyuv to bring that many; if they work one minute slower they can save 25 Kikkar a year.”

This is for when nfg03 sees this:

This thread title also reminds me of another old song…. 😛

I’m right. There is no reason I should agree with you. You’re wrong and I’m right.