Derech of Hasidic Learning

We explain one thing in terms of another showing he goes leshitosa and the three rishonim, Rif, Rambam and the Rosh are emphasized as the Mechaber paskens according to the majority of them.

You can’t leave out Ger which was established by the Gaon and Baki, Reb Moshele Ruttenberg who brought the derech straight from Reb Meir Shapiro of Lublin. The Litvishe chakira is considered something the Litvakes do. As they say in Chabad, a Litvak is a Litvak. In Ungarin, they learned Noda Biyehuda and the Tumim etc.

By the Chasidim to derive the halacha, we must learn the Tur and Beis Yosef as referenced by the Ein Mishpat on the gemara followed by the SA and its commentaries e.g. Taz, Megan Avraham, Machtzis Hashekel, Sma Shach, Beis Shmuel and then the Rambam and its commentaries.

There is a small booklet called תנו כבוד לתורה from Rav Shimon Furst available at hebrewbooks.org, which questions the litwish learning about bekios. In Chasan Sofer, to remedy this, we had two sedorim, one in the morning following the litwish derech and the other in the afternoon where we would learn for bekios. So, chasidishe emphasize more bekios as sinai veoker horim, sinai adef whereas the litiishe the sharpness. The was the argument between the Beis Shamai, sharpness whereas the Beis Hilel, bekios. I once heard that this is the argument by Chanukah. The Beis Hilel required sharpness which improves with age, so we light going forward whereas the Beis Shamai required better memory which occurs in the youth, so they went backwards. Also, what are we celebrating? The hatzala, going forward or the mapala, going backwards as by Sukkas with the oxen. The Orchas Tzadikim above is in Shaar Hatorah starting with Veod.

No, I learned 1959-63 at Adas Yereim, Wien in Williamsburg and 1963-68 in Chasan Sofer, Mattersdorf, originially on the East Side then Borough Park, by Rav Simcha Bunim ztz’l and Rav Shmuel ztz’l who gave once a week a shiur. Rav Tirnauer ztl’z taught a younger class.

So you learned by the Hudhauzer, Harav Leibovitch?

Rav Simcha Bunim tzl’l was a talmid of his brother in law Rav Paler ztz’l where he learned the litvishe way. In the Wiener we learned chasidish, no chakiros. We did make fun of it, where we questioned what sweetens the tea, the sugar or the mixing? The answer was the mixing and sugar was required to know how long to mix.

For the record… THIS is the type of discussion I (and others) come to YWN and the Coffee Room to see. The Yeshiva World, not CNN vs. Fox vs. OAN vs. MSNBC. Shkoyach to the OP and those that contributed to this discussion. I learned a great deal. I hope to see more of this.

The Chasam Sofer said the day he did not learn Chovas Halvovas he was missing something.

Chasiddish:

The gemora in Eruvin (6,2) says that whoever follows the chumras, stringent views of both the Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel,on him it says kesil bahoshach holech, the fool walks in darkness.
The Ostrovtzer in Sefer Meir Einei Chachomim explains in a humorous fashion this gemora. The Beis Shamai forbids using kelim on shabbos as their view is shevisas kelim, the dishes and utensils, must also rest on shabbos. Asks the gemora Shabbos (18,2) according to them, how can we light shabbos candles? Answers the gemora that the lighter must give up ownership (mafker) of the canderlabra.
There is another argument if hefkar must be complete both for the poor and the rich. The Beis Shamai says that it only needs to be for the poor, so their view is consistent and we can be mafker the canderlabra. However, if we go by the Beis Hilel by hefkar and the Beis Shamai by shvisas kelim, he/she will not be able to be mafker because by lighting acquires some ownership but we need to be mafker completely, so the fool will stay in darkness.

Another chasiddic demonstation:

The gemora in Shabbos tells the story of a min (atheist) saw Rava being so involved in his learning that he was pressing his foot on his hand and blood was gushing from it. So told Rava that you are a hurried nation as you preceded at Kabolas Hatorah naaseh (to do) before nishma (to hear). What is the connection? The Kol Aryeh sees as a discussion why Avraham Avinu did not circumcize himself until commanded. Maybe he did not want to harm yourself but you Rava belief that you are allowed to harm yourself. Maybe he waited to be commanded which is greater than not commanded but then
why they preceeded naasey before nishma. So Rava answered him that we trust Hashem like a father who loves us and will not ask us to do something we are unable to do.

Should be above, not want to harm himself.

Another Chasiddish Derech:

The Chasam Sofer on Shabbos 24 where the mishna says not to burn kodoshim on yom tov explains how the mishna can be interpreted according to the smart woman, the wife of the Sma. She holds that by yom tov lighting, the brocho should be said first before lighing and to light early. He explains that the two views of her are related leshitosa, once a brocho is said first it is yom tov and therefore even lighting early would be a question of burning kodoshim.

Someone here is confusing “Litvish learning” with the Brisker method. There is no such animal as “litvish” learning. There is pilpul, L’shitasoi, Telz, Brisk, Higayon, and others. Each has their unique qualities. To the surprise of many, Lithuanians studied Torah before Lithuanian yshivas came into existence, and they also had a derech limud. I don’t know what the “chassidishe” method is, but I assume it is not pan-chassidish. Just look at what recently happened to the Gerrer Chassidim in Israel because of a difference of opinion in derech halimud.

Sometimes a statement can also be interpreted baderech halotza, a joke. It says על שלשה דברים העולם עומד the world stands on 3 pillars. The Yalkut Hagershuni interprets this, that people stand up, have no patients, when it comes to these 3 things. Torah, people want to leave a drasha being too long, Avoda, davenen lasting long, Gemilas Chasodim, an Appeal. ברוך שבחר בהם ובמשנתם praised is the one who chooses them and their learning. People want to listen to the Torah of talmid chachamim but marrying them, were parnasa is hard, is thought twice and being held back.

There is an interpretation of mussar:

כל הפוסל במומו פוסל – whoever faults someone, faults him with his own faults.
אין אדם רואה את נגעי עצמו – one does not recognize his own faults
שלך אי אתה רואה אבל אתה רואה של אחרים ושל גבוה – you don’t recognize your own faults but you recognize the faults of others and specially the faults of the holy. When someone degrades others, thinks he becomes greater.

The Arizal said on the hesped of Remak כי יהי-ה באיש חטא משפט מות ותלית על עץ when some one sins deserving death, hang them first on the tree. He translated it, If a person lacks judgement of death (so he didn’t deserve to die) apply the reason for the eitz hadaas.
He also said ‘כל מעשר בקר וצאן כל אשר יעבר תחת השבט העשירי יהי -ה קודש לה he applied to the ten martyrs each died representing his shevat. Hashem was included in selling of Yosef, so Rav Akiva coming from gerim was in place of Hashem. Benephraim, don’t dismiss this, the rishonim had no reason to do this, they knew enough to find a pasuk directly related. It might be included in remez as gematrias are. We find remozim on halacha. A nazir thirty days is a gematria יהי-ה.

The Bnei Yisoschor says that lo motzo monoach, as Monoach was an am haaretz, so no am haaretz was found. Everyone knew whoever hurts the Bnei Yisroel will be elevated.

rational: Well said.

The Vilna Gaon was a Litvak who learned Torah before R. Chaim Brisker, and before the Beis Halevi too. And he was able to become a גדול שבגדולים without them somehow. Can you imagine that?

Was Rav Moshe Feinstein a Brisker? Was Rav Henkin a Brisker?

Brisk is a city, not מדינת ליטא overall. The whole idea that some people have that every Litvak is or must be some type of Brisker clone is absurd and offensive.

To the learned Reb Eliezer,
I respectfully disagree with your analysis of the The Chasam Sofer’s use of double entendre. The Chasam Sofer was not a Chossid, to imply this is highly misleading. His brilliant and clever double entendres were used as an intellectual exercise to drive home a point. They were not used to pasken halachah on their own without clear proofs from Shas and Rishonim.

Hi everybody. I think that it may be suggested that there are 2 types of Brisk. Saying over Tayre from Reb Chaim and his Talmidim , is the first type. Then there is the application of the Derech to answer new issues . It is well known that the Satmar Rov ( vayoel Moshe) was chalishing to hear the Torah of the Brisker that were heard from the Tatteh in the name of the Zaydeh. I will explain why if anyone wants to know.

So then why didn’t the Gemara list it among the 4 that are considered like meysim. Very nice Toyreh . RE you are a repository of the Oilomos Shecharvu. Keep up your good writings. Kesiva Vechasima Tovah a gantz yohr. BTW did you know Rav Chaim Shpitzer ,the Viener dayan. A landsman from Bisermin?

Benephraim, I try to answer your kashyeh, the 4 are mesim even currently, but that was a onetime situation.