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Aries
Thanks for your thoughts. I do genuinely appreciate yours and everyone elses comments, even if it doesnt always sound like it. I just am writing what I feel/think obout each particular point. I may be wrong about certain things, and writing up opnions in the coffee room gives me the opportunity to hear what others think about that pint/idea/topic.
Your last line about things not being unmoveable is certainly a line that offers chizuk, so thank you.
For the information of people who may not know it CLINICAL DEPRESSION is an illness, like diabetes, or kidney disease. you wouldn’t tell a diabetic to focus on the bright side, you would tell him to keep his insulin levels steady . you would tell someone with kidney disease to take his meds and watch his liquid intake,etc. the point i’m trying to make is ,there is a very big difference between someone who is down in the dumps because of a hard life, being spoiled, unrealistic expectations or a bad attitude and someone who suffers from the illness of depression which needs competent medical care, and competent therapy. To those sufferers. listen IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, NO LESS THAN IT IS MY FAULT FOR HAVING BAD Teeth OR SOMEONE ELSES FAULT FOR HAVING A HEART CONDITION. certainly fresh air, a healthy diet, exercise and a support group are good things, but the main thing is good medical care and of course lots of tefillos. a Talmid Chochom once told me. Every time you feel like you have to cry or sigh make that into a tefilla by adding “please Hashem help me”.
There is light at the end of the tunnel!!!, I have seen seriously depressed people who got better, but it was a long difficult journey.With Hashem’s help it worked out.on the road to recovery there were lots of incompetent therapists, and medicines that didn’t work or made things worse..
One of the best doctors in the world for this is DR. Lebowitz in n.y. world famous, excellent in diagnosis and tops in prescribing the right medicine. Only drawback is that he is extremely expensive. on the other hand, within a few visits to him he can sort you out (3-6) and then your local doctor can take over and work with him. if you are not able to get to ny or can’t afford him , it is important to be in touch with one of the many RABBONIM/ASKANIM WHO REFER PEOPLE TO THE BEST DOCTORS, THERAPISTS IN THEIR FIELD. (i don’t know their names or numbers but if you put it out there you will get the info i’m sure.)like any other illness the difference in getting a good doctor is literally life and death.
Unfortunately an additional burden for the sufferer of depression and other so -called mental or emotional illnesses is the lack of knowledge and the stigma attached to these conditions which make it difficult to get proper treatment and or support from the community. The person who “lo oleinu” needs a transplant will have people working worldwide to help him , but the person suffering from these types of illnesses is afraid to tell anyone for fear of being stigmatised, shidduch, etc. i wish i had an idea of how to deal with that. May Hashem send everyone a complete Refuah. And send us all the Geula b’korov.
just checking up-how are you doing blabla? this thread fell off but i’ve been looking out for you. Please let us know!
paradoxescliches – are you there.
Given that this the coffee room is anonymous, maybe you could post your advice for me on this thread?
Or Mods if your reading this please put us in contact.
So weird!
I’ve been doing well for about 6 months but tonight I’m in such a bad mood. I’m hoping it’s not my depression creeping up on me again. I’m so nervous that it is though.
I keep telling myself that EVERYONE is allowed to have a bad day/nite and this is mine. I hope telling myself that works. I can’t go back to that time in my life when I was so miserable!!
happiest:
Ha! Let me in to your (hopefully little) club?
Hi there, Happiest! Haven’t seen ya in quite some time! Glad to hear ur doing fine!!
You’re right. Every person gets in a bad mood SOMETIMES. Besides, you know too much to get back to where you’ve been. It’s impossible to get back to square one. You’ve experienced a lot, and you already know what depression is all about. Don’t let it scare you! You WILL NOT go back there Bezras Hashem. Put on some good music, write, draw…. whatever. Do something to lift your mood. Hatzlacha!!!!! (BTW I still daven that you find ur bashert. Please keep us posted!!)
take it easy. read a book. do a puzzle. or go for a brisk walk. this may be your body’s way of saying – stop. take care of me. also, writing everything down helps – just write for several pages everything that is going on in your head.
don’t be nervous, just let it pass through. EVERYONE has both good and bad days.
you should have hatzlacha.
Did you pick your name for the same reason I picked mine???
Hi Happiest, hope you are feeling better. Try to look forward to happy things like Purim. I have always wondered if it takes a specific event to trigger a depression, or does it come all by itself. Is there anything specific that is getting you down?
Happiest, stay in control and “choose” not to give in to that old illness. Try to think about what is triggering your bad mood and think about how to deal with it or what you can do about it. If there is nothing you can do about it then chalk it up to “it is what it is” and tomorrow is a new day. If there is something you can do about, then think about what you can do in this situation to bring about a different outcome and avoid these bad feelings.
Well, if you think it is coming back, that is a valid and healthy reason to be sad. So I would assume it is just a random bad mood.
Think through your day and see if there is anything which is upsetting you. Once you identify it, it is much easier to deal with.
Wow..I have not been on in ages. I was hesitant to even start reading this thread because I deal with this stuff all day long, and I come in here to see something different, but I started scrolling down and…there I was… I sadly, got confused because oiy veiy, too many of you are depressed or so you are calling it.
Unfortunately, depression and anxiety is not unusual in our day and age. You are all wonderful, and as I scanned all the comments, I truly think you should all be proud that you have so many wonderful ideas to reach out and give support. There are some points that I would like to say and please forgive me if it is the same or perhaps a repeat. People use the word depression very freely in our society. A teen can come in and sit herself down in my office and say she is depressed but after some talk she actually can express that she is really upset or hurt about something that has happened. Clinically depressed? Not necessarily.
Much of the time young adults are battling feelings of low self esteem, friendship issues, relationship concerns with parents or siblings, how they are conditioned to view the world around them and how they feel about the way people view them. Real depression concerns are specificly diagnosed by a psychiatrist whereby the patient IS HONEST about how she feels and thinks. If someone really has serious concerns or feels unsafe or is not functioning,an appointment with a psychatrist is in order. It wouldnt be a bad ides to see a pcp as well. A physical exam and thyroid check in the bloodwork please. Please understand that psychiatrists are not mindreaders. Presentation is very important. Please please be OPEN. What you say and dont say may make the difference in the kind of diagnosis you receive. Along with a psychiatrist, once your symptoms are addressed, it would be wise to get into some therapy treatment so you have a safe space where you can feel validation and support to work through some tough things in your life which are what we call in therapy, triggers. Anxiety disorders, are a bit different than depression, and if meds are needed, can be helpful in lowering symptoms and thereafter one may go into a good CBT therapist to learn tools to lower your anxiety. In teens, sometimes we look at hormonal imbalances, similar to postpartum women. Imbalanced hormones can wreck havoc in the system, so it is something to consider. Diet an excercise can play a hugh role in the improvement of overall physical and mental health. The mind and body work very closely hand in hand. As Dr Sarno so clearly points to in his book about diseases, back pain and how it is very closely linked with emotional health. Taking Omega 3 fish oil and a good multi vitamin including additional B12 is vital. Go swimming or yoga or work out. Endorphins in your body are good hormones which are naturally produced as a result of exercise. Seratonin levels increase from exercise too. seratonin levels decrease as a result of depression and anxiety. In postpartum women, we encourage people to take some steps in nurturing and understanding that they need to be kinder to themselves. This is an important part of the healing process. In our society everyone is extremely hard on themselves.
There is an inner voice that we listen to all day about all the things we SHOULD or MUST do. You SHOULDNY or you’re really SUPPOSED TO… Becoming aware of an inner critic at volume 10, is detrimental to ones self esteem! Learning how to tap into the part of self that needs to be aware that it is time to give yourself permission to listen to your inner pain and own your issues so you can than move on to make necessary changes, and than free yourself and heal.Remember,when you crash with your head on the ground, there is only one place to go from there, upwards. Most of all, believe you can get better. A simple exercise that is very revealing is to ask yourself that if you were to go to the bridge and have an opportunity to throw away all your hardships and challanges and be rid of them, who would you then be and what would you fee like? What things would you then have the courage to take on and do? If you CAN tell me all you would do or how different life would be for you, than I have news for you, if you diligently follow your protocol, and do your work in counseling, you will get there sooner than you think because you are still able to separate yourself from the issues. If you tell me you can’t imagine yourself without these negative feelings and you cant clearly seperate your self from it, you may have to work a bit harder still, but believe you will get there. Hope there is some info here that can be helpful for someone. I certainly salute all of you and I am definitely here for anyone that wants to reach out.
“if you were to go to the bridge and have an opportunity to throw away all your hardships and challanges and be rid of them,”
I would probably throw myself over first:(
Wow, thanks everyone for caring so much!
B”H I’m doing much better. It was just a passing mood that I didn’t let pass on into the next day.
Cum laude- I am clinically depressed unfortunately. I am not using the word freely, wish I was though.
It’s amazing that I’m doing well again!!!! B”H!!
just refreshing this thread
paradoxescliches – are you there.
Given that this the coffee room is anonymous, maybe you could post your advice for me on this thread?
Or Mods if your reading this please put us in contact.
Are you a psychiatrist by any chance?
tbt- I agree with you. I saw a psychologist first and then was told to see a psychiatrist after my therapist recommended I see one.
I think it’s also important to see someone who knows what they’re doing. Unfortunately, I suffered through seeing some not so good therapists… b”H I found the right one now!
happiest – that’s great! (that you didn’t allow it to stay with you)
Hi Tbt, just to answer your question, when we are talking CLINICAL depression, obviously, the diagnosis previously came from somewhere professional.(??) Oftentimes, if a person with a bad depression walks into a therapist and starts working, it will not always be successful. Why? There are a few reasons but one is that the patient is too symptomatic and will be resistant to being able to concentrate or process the work that needs to be done. You put someone like that into a CBT or DBT program and they will never come back. They will also decide that therapy stinks. Getting them back is something I need to work very hard at sometimes with a client.
So, understand then, that meds would help first and then therapy at some later point.
My point was not who is the right person to go to first. Both are many times needed. My decision is based on what I am hearing and how workable I think this person is. Some people are very stigmatized by the very thought of meds, and so I will advise therapy and hope that the therapist will be able to ease them into this idea of considering the meds. I am always glad when someone can work through his/her issues in therapy w/o needing to start the trials of medication. Medication can be a lifesaver for some, but it definitely is not candy. I have seen some amazing turnarounds thru meds, and at the same time, have seen some of the best Dr’s that I have worked along with, having a nasty time trying to find the right drug with the least amount of side effects. (Even, believe it or not..Dr. Leibowitz, whom I have been involved with. Good Dr. i.e. but also only human)
In regard to seeing a regular pcp(medical Dr.) I have for example Postpartum women who are feeling very anxious and having panic, and I could easily assume that they are manifesting Postpartum anxiety. However sending some of them for bloodwork, will sometimes show a thyroid imbalance which mimicks the same symptoms as anxiety many times. They go on thyroid medication and feel much better. I think that is amazing when they could be walking around trying to battle anxiety which is really an out of control place to be in. If bloodwork comes back normal sometimes, again, depending on how extreme, we consider some alternative approaches, looking at her diet and her lifestyle and what needs to be changed. We would then continue on to consider therapy, meds, etc
My dear mischief maker, what a thing to say, did you really mean that? I know it must feel that way sometimes but on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst, how seriously did you mean that comment? If you didn’t then you really can cause some mischief…
If you are feeling that bad please dont ignore it and get in touch with someone to help you lower those thoughts.
Happiest, I’m happiest that you feel better after that “bad mood ” day! However understand, that since you have some history, you have the knowledge of what your patterns are. If you would say, on a bell curve of an upward scale, you have little downward dips but are still on the up curve, and you are functional on those days, then you can say that little setbacks can be within normal,( for example, depending on what outside things are going on in your life that may influence anyones moods, on any level)although you need to be vigilant and watch for a pattern.
Sometimes when people have a little setback they get so discouraged and fearful that this in itself can throw them into Anticipatory Anxiety, which makes it all worse. You need to focus on how far you have come and what you have already acquired and learned. Taking secure thoughts with you, will keep the “mood” at bay and hopefully it will pass successfully. If you are worried, call your therapist and touch base.
Hilly Billy, It is really hard to work things out and be ready for life. But hey- you are already living it in this present moment.
Spending too much time thinking about FUTURE and PAST actually is very anxiety provoking. You sound like a very responsible person, but we are only people and cant always assume that we will have answers to everything in order to take the next step in life. Focus on being in the moment and not past or future. That doesnt mean you shouldnt think about what you need to do at a specific time tomorrow, but what I am trying to say really is, try to separate the things you CAN control and the things that are beyond your control. Beyond conrol and future worries, we need to leave to Hashem because that is where it belongs. Past thinking, about how “normal” you once felt, only makes you feel inadequate today. So stay in the moment and make that count. People overoccupy themselves a long time trying to prepare for marriage, kids, relationships etc. and because they are so busy worrying about it, they develop a fear about if they will be able to handle it or be successful at it. Fear stops one from putting himself/herself out there, and perfectionism paralyzes them from taking risks. You need to find your inner courage(which you already have in there, by the way)and start believing that you are good and valuable and everyone has challenges to work through,Take it from me. (the finest and the best, the most beautiful, and the most talented etc.) Challenges in this world are equal opportunity jobs that we all need to step up to. That is why we are here… If you think there are people that have it easy, look again. I am privy to a lot of information that has changed my perspective on life. You will meet someone that will appreciate the person that you are. Don’t be scared to get out there. If you are, get someone to help and support you. Work on your courage and please give yourself permission to be happy, make it a good day, you deserve it!
Cum laude- when I was a month into this period of doing so well I did get discouraged from having a “down” day but now I can usually assume that it’s going to pass. Yes, I still do get anxious from it because I really never wanna go back there but I can safely assume that I’m going to be ok.
It’s scary to think of not doing well again. I went through sooo many medications before I found the right mix. I don’t know what I’d do if they c”v started not working.
Cum Laude – IYHO, at what point does a post-partum woman become clinical (in depression) as opposed to just having the blues and would need meds and therapy? (You checked the TSH already.)
That is an excellent question in regard to postpartum women. All women after birth will experience some fluctuations in moods due to hormones which are surging and clearing out after birth. That is why women can be so fragile after they give birth. Regular baby blues should pass after the initial days up to a few weeks. If someone does not seem to be getting better they should seek help. I can give someone an excellent resource to call for support and amazing help. Different symptoms are more concerning than others. Anxiety, not being able to sleep, feeling overwhelmed can be things that many women feel after birth but that doesnt mean they have ppd. When symptoms become worse, such as the inability to bond with the baby, feelings of hopelessness, irrational thinking, obsessive scary thoughts, or feelings of grandeur, or delusional thinking-even just one of these listed, definitely raises the true concern for ppd. If anyone knows someone in such a situation, have them get in touch with me through our moderators. I will get them to where they need to be. You may be saving a whole family. These women are not going to just get over it, they need help.
without attacking me, i would like to know if these women after birth would get sleep and food and support(such as theirs and husbands expectations of woman after birth is reduced; household help, etc.) they need, would that solve most women’s problems without the need for medication?
ppd is a real depression brought on by, most probably, great hormonal changes. altho’ of course proper diet, sufficient sleep ( hmmm. is that possible?), cleaning help , & of course the husband’s support (& exercise could help) are all beneficial to any woman who has just given birth, I think it’s deeper than that & needs to be treated by a doctor/therapist. JMO.
I guess I may as well call it a day. Now I see a post on Anxiety!!!
What are you guys thinking??? I am going to be dancin’ back and forth??!! I cant wait to join the “Nothing to say” thread. That would certainly give everyone some peace of mind.
Just want to let you know “beena yeseira,” all those good things you mentioned are certainly helpful in making a situation better, but “Always here” has mentioned and is correct- it is not always that simple. I do want to say that outcomes are far better, when there is household help, more effective sleep, taking supplements and the biggy..here goes.. (drum roll) good support from the husband and family system. Would you believe that statistics show that women whose husbands were clued in and there, supportive interested, and concerned, actually had far greater outcomes in the healing process. I will add though that husbands also need support to help them understand what is hitting them when after a simcha, which promises to be the highest time, suddenly throws them into this terrible situation. They get burned out and there is actually some incidence of depression in men that are going through ppd with their spouses. (makes sense) You cant expect them all to know how to respond to a wife that is in such a state. There are trained people that will talk to these men and normalize what is happening to them. There is some really valuable help out there.
ppd is different than regular depression. It is considered a physical illness. Yes hormonal imbalance is physical, although symptoms are the same and meds the same, ppd gets better, one can wean off meds and will not necessarily suffer other bouts of this in future pregnancies.
Cum Laude: Your contributions here are always helpful!! It’s truly amazing how you always know the right things to say and do!! I think you should go check out the anxiety thread, being that you deal with that on a daily basis!! Hatzlucha!!
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