- This topic has 35 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 3 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Doesn’t matter how many there are or if it is achievable to get them all. Start somewhere and get as many as practical. They illegally broke into the country. Once large numbers are deported the message will get out that America means business and it isn’t worth violating our laws without facing the requisite consequences.
Others, who wait their turn to legally immigrate, shouldn’t be penalized for upholding the law by having to wait years to immigrate (often even being turned down) whereas the crooks who snuck in illegally are awarded for breaking the law by being granted amnesty and permitted to remain.
And with that, it is time to repeal the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment which ostensibly grants citizenship to all born on its soil. That was never the intent of it, and never should have been the interpretation. The intention was only to grant citizenship to former slaves, a provision no longer relevant. The vast majority of the world are governed by jus sanguinis, not by jus soli. And that is as it should be. America should not be ground for anchor babies where people come here to give birth in order to obtain citizenship for the child or where illegals are awarded citizenship for their child when here illegally.
How can a Jew be so anti-immigration?
For several hundred years, undocument immigrants were deported only if they were convicted of a serious crime or ended up as public charges (on welfare as we say today). Most of our ancestors entered America as undocumented aliens under these rules. The reality, if that if current laws were in effect in the past, very few American Jews would have been allowed to immigrate (and the decision back then to let our ancestors come was very controversial). American was built on the assumption that anyone wanting to come here and work hard to build a life for their family was welcome – that’s the American way.
The 14th amendment was intended to be broader than making the ex-slave into full citizens. In the debate, it was asked to the effect, do you really want us to be stuck with Jews and Irish as well – and the answer was “yes”. Since then, “jus soli” has become deeply ingrained in the American psyche – anyone suggesting someone born in the US is a “foreigner” is considered by most people to be un-American.
There always have been “nativists” opposed to “new immigrants” (e.g. anyone whose ancestors came after the revolution). Please note that of the leading Republicans, only Bush and Carson can trace their ancestry back that far. Very few people reading YWN can. The nativists were politically important in the 1840s (too many Jews and Irish coming), but never were close to winning.
A country founded on illegal immigration should not be too quick to deport.
Joseph
This is another impossible dream. The Government even under Obama has been deporting illegal aliens. The problems are:
A) Unless they are in jail even if they (illegal aliens)are caught they are usually let go and told to come back for their hearing, which most of them never show up for. The only way to show you really mean it is to keep them jailed until the hearing.
B) There is no real solid wall or fence dividing the US from Mexico or Canada so you can just walk across or swim in some places. A solid wall with trip wires are needed to prevent the illegals from entering the US. So even if you deport a few they just keep coming back. They have been talking about building a fence for years but nothing has been done.
Likewise, better control over people who remain after their visa expired is needed so that they can be rounded up and deported.
You are going to need a new police force and prisons just to handle this. But can we afford this?
There is nothing wrong with being a Martian.
In the 1930’s, would you have opposed illegal immigration of Jews?
There are quite a few jews NOW (Mostly Israelis, but not all Israelis only some) who are illegal Ailens. Should we deport them?
Joseph: Under current law, almost all Jewish immigrants to America would have been illegal. Being in the United States without a “green card” was the norm – there was no “line” to get immigration status. You arrived, wern’t diseased (TB was a big issue back then), or a know criminal, and could sujpport yourself through honest work – you were welcomed. A lot of people complained that American was being overrun by undesirables – but except for the Indians (who were ripped off by illegal aliens), the “huddled masses” (a Yid wrote that) are what built up America. Indeed, the US’s relative economic strength is due to immigration (countries like Japan keep out foreigners, and they’ve been in a deep depression for over 20 years) – especially since the good “old stock” don’t like to have children. America’s strength is from immigration. The reason American is full of Jews, with more freedom than anywhere in the world (just try being hareidi in Europe or Israel if you want to see the comparison), is based on policies reflecting the pro-immigration, pro-diversity bias of the American people.
Jopseph, I agree with you. Because of all the illegal aliens, I have been stuck living in Iraq for the past 8 years, risking my life day in and out to live as a Jew, since the quota for citizenship is full- largely caused by all the illegals. I am forced to live with the bare necessities over here- no air conditioning, no internet, usually we cant even get a minyan. The rare amount of times I am able to get public internet access, everything but pro-Islam sites are blocked.
*the above statement is true on condition the mods lack the ability to check my IP location.
“The vast majority of the world are governed by jus sanguinis, not by jus soli. “
Canada, Mexico, and almost every other country in the Western Hemisphere follow jus soli.
If Israel’s Arab neighbors did there would not be a Palestinian refugee problem.
“For several hundred years, undocument immigrants were deported only if they were convicted of a serious crime or ended up as public charges “
Not true. Until the late 18th century there was no concept of illegal immigration — anyone could come here, with basically no restrictions.
“How can a Jew be so anti-immigration?”
Only by being totally assimilated into the same racist nativism that doomed six million of our people. Jews depend upon open borders for survival and any anti-immigration politician is an enemy of the Jewish people.
“There are quite a few jews NOW (Mostly Israelis, but not all Israelis only some) who are illegal Ailens. Should we deport them?”
That there are so many Israeli illegal immigrants is one reason why Israelis still need visas to travel to the US.
“There is no excuse for the millions who broke the law and entered the United States illegally. “
Yup. He would have handed over illegal Jewish immigrants to the Nazis on 1940.
“the borders are being overrun with tens of millions of illegal aliens.”
40% of illegal immigrants came here legally and over stayed their visas. To deport all of them would require a security apparatus resembling that of the former Soviet bloc during the Cold War.
“I suggested only the first clause, dealing with citizenship, be repealed. “
It is only that clause that prevents the Christian crazies from stripping us of our own citizenship.
scared driver delight: People need to understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration. Nobody said they were against the legal variety.
Joseph’s statement, if you read it again, proves he never said what you are implying. He said, correctly, that illegal immigration is unfair to those waiting their turn to immigrate LEGALLY. What’s worse, is even after an illegal is caught committing a crime, your President doesn’t want to deport him.
Joseph’s post was right on and very reasonable.
akuperma: You can’t apply a current law to what took place 65-100 years ago on any issue. That’s a very poor argument. Jews entered the U.S. legally at that time and many more died as a result of quota’s place on us during and prior to WWII.
Laws are irrelevant if they are not enforced, per what’s going on today. Even worse, is having a President who is encouraging more illegal immigration and cities and states that have become sanctuary locations by choice, all to get more democrat voters. The fact that Americans have died as a result and life has been made unbearable for many doesn’t seem to matter, as in some southern states.
Depending on what period they arrived, most European Jews had to come through legal channels. Families were often separated for years until arrangements could be made for everyone to get to the U.S. And today, it’s no secret anymore what the State Dept. did and did not do before and during the Holocaust. But in general, the concept is and was that the U.S. was build by immigrants.
There are however, some mitigating circumstances nowadays. The border with Mexico is practically a fiction, a border only in name. As others have already remarked, there are many spots where people can and do just walk or swim over. The federal govt. has got to take control of the border. This also has national security ramifications as well, e.g., terrorism, chas ve’shalom. Exactly how to do this is not simple. A wall for instance can be easily circumvented by digging tunnels — something the smugglers are already doing. Seismic detection monitors could be deployed along the border, although this is probably horrendously expensive. Most likely a combination of air, land, and underground surveillance and detection systems will be needed, along with a seriously upgraded border patrol.
There is another angle concerning the illegals from Mexico. In certain locales, they are coming to the local and state governments demanding Spanish language services, road signs, and in some places parallel Spanish language classrooms in the public schools! True, lately some of these outrageous demands have abated, but it’s very often on people’s minds. Some Latino leaders in the U.S. (legal or otherwise) have even declared publicly that this is a way to “reconquer” land that used to be Mexican territory…. One Latino activist was asked why he insists so much on retaining Spanish, replied, “well, national pride, you know!” National pride??!! Spanish national pride is south of the border! In the U.S. of A, we are Americans who speak English! At home, church, the community center, at Cinco de Mayo celebrations, fine, speak Spanish. But at work, in the schools, on the highways — it’s America where English is spoken. BTW, with the Yidden who immigrated to the U.S. it was the same. They maintained Yiddish at home, in shul, sometimes in schools, etc. But everyone learned (or at least tried to learn) English. So the grandparents spoke with an accent, and the kids sounded American. I am not advocating being “a Jew in your home and a man in the street” kind of thing. Cultural identity is very important, particularly for Jews. But it’s important not to allow a gigantic sub-culture that excludes speaking English and much of the American way of life to develop. Maybe it’s already too late. But taking control of the borders would be a huge step in stemming the uncontrolled influx of many who resist becoming Americanized. Bottom line: yes to LEGAL immigration.
If it’s not bothering the mods, you certainly don’t need to worry about it. Shorter posts are much easier to approve, regardless how many.
But thanks for thinking of us.
Joseph, we all know you are Donald Trump.
If you knew a Yid was an Illegal Ailen, would you become a moser and turn him over to the authorities?
There hasn’t been a terrorist attack come from Mexico in almost a century. Pancho Villa died in 1923.
We forget that Spanish was spoken in the United States before English. (French, too.)
” But everyone learned (or at least tried to learn) English.”
This is not true. I have personally met numerous Jews in America who are illiterate in English.
“The vast majority of Jews who moved to America, whether in the 19th century or in the 20th century, did so legally.”
I would support returning to the pre-1914 immigration laws.
” all to get more democrat voters”
Illegal immigrants can’t vote.
‘One Latino activist was asked why he insists so much on retaining Spanish, replied, “well, national pride, you know!” ‘
It is also rather useful to be fluent in a language spoken by four hundred million people.
Charliehall: Illegals can’t vote legally, but some States register people when they get a drivers license and they don’t check citizenship. Also, your President is looking for paths to citizenship for illegals.
On your second post, most immigrant in years gone by wanted to integrate into society. They retained their old languages but also learned english, so they were able to function in society. The multi-cultural mentality keeps people divided in every way with no assimilation into what was formerly the American culture. Like divide and conquer.
I saw this first hand in my former community and the result wasn’t pretty.
They won’t forget spanish by learning english.
BarryLS1,
Few if any illegals vote. Some states don’t even have voter registration or let you register on election day and they don’t have any problems. And it definitely makes sense to create a path to eventual citizenship for illegal immigrants; the alternative is to create an East-Germany style police state where everyone is informing on their neighbor as to the nationality of their household help. (Not to mention the massive tax increase that would be required by such.)
And I can’t believe that someone would be objecting to multiculturalism on a frum site. We orthodox Jews are supposed to be the prime example of not assimilating into the culture around us. Clearly you have assimilated into WASP society with that attitude.
And I should point out that I live in the Bronx, which is now over 50% Hispanic. My next door neighbors are immigrants from the Dominican Republic; they speak English fluently and their 20something daughter speaks fluent English with an American accent. My backyard backs up to the backyard of a Puerto Rican family who speak fluent English with an American accent. The only folks in my neighborhood who don’t speak English with an American accent are Jews! And a few months ago I was passing through a Hispanic neighborhood in the South Bronx, changing buses, and I could not believe that I heard more English than Spanish being spoken.
And I don’t get why one should forget Spanish. It is spoken by 400 million people. You want to do well in this world today you better know multiple languages.
charliehall:Wow, can you distort a post and take things out of context.
Aside from the fact that many illegals do vote and I’ve seen it myself in my former community, your whole multicultural response is extremely dishonest.
I suggest you reread my post. I never suggested that people give up their heritage, language or culture. I did say that they should learn english so they were able to function in society. This is exactly what most Jews, Italians and Irish did and none of those groups gave up anything to do so.
Multiculturalism was created by Leftist to prevent people from assimilating enough to function and succeed in society. All it does, like the structure of the welfare programs, is to keep people down and dependent, which is harmful to the country, except for the Democrat Party.
Nice about your experience in the Bronx, but I was president of a neighborhood association in a community with a sizable Hispanic section of both legals and illegals. My experience is the exact opposite. They made their neighbors miserable, both blacks and Jews. The Mayor and former Governor declared the city ans state a “sanctuary” location for illegals with very negative results.
Again, where did anyone say that Hispanics should forget Spanish?
charliehall: One more thing and I hate to bust your bubble, but here goes. Believe it or not, there is a vast and very different world outside of NY.
I grew up in NY and after I got married, I lived in a very mixed Jewish and mostly Hispanic, with some Blacks, in NY. The mentality and people of NY are way different. I also lived a long time outside of NY before making Aliyah and I can tell you from first hand experience how different it is.
When it comes to Hispanics, the Puerto Rican percentage of the Hispanic population is far greater in NY. Where we lived, most Hispanics were from South America. Their cultures and dialects are very different.
I never saw a Puerto Rican throw their garbage outside their window, nor did I ever see them half naked and drunk urinating on their neighbor’s lawn.
Puerto Rican’s like everyone else, have their own shtick, but they are far more acclimated to their environment. They are also American citizens.
Hispanics from South America, who are in the U.S. legally, are also very different than the illegals, especially in their respect for the laws. The many Hispanic that I knew in my old community were very upset at the behaviors and presence of the illegals.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.