Defunding Police

Dear Ben,
This was discussed on the thread about the Sixties. Those cities are capable of containing the unrest on their own. Bringing in Federal agents is probably a bad idea. Oncwe you mentioned it, what is going on in Portland?

nOmesorah -“This was discussed on the thread about the Sixties. Those cities are capable of containing the unrest on their own.”

IDK about Now, but I posted in that Topic, that it took the National Guard to quell those riots.
It might be that the cops in those cities, actually could Stop the Rioting, but the Governors & the Mayors are Putting handcuffs on them!

“I was asking if you are advocating for Federal Agents, like Portland has. I have no idea how it is helping. And it seems to be at least borderline unconstitutional. Is it a dress rehearsal?”

It seems like they are vandalizing federal property. Now, I am not sure if that changes anything from a legal perspective. But at least some can understand as to why the federal government is getting involved.

Furthermore, if the population is being threatened by vandalists and looters, and the local municipality and the state are refusing to take action, while it might not change much legally, it would seem justified for the feds to move in and establish normal order.

Dear Som,
You misunderstood. i was criticizing a certain mayor.

PS Are we back to the obsession with punk rock? (i. e. What does Antifa have to do with anything.)

Health,
It definitely seems as though they are pulling suspects off the streets throughout the city, not just by the courthouse. There is extensive video evidence for this.
I don’t know whether or not the actions taken by Homeland Security are constitutional or not, but the tactics being used definitely scare me. people being pulled off the streets into unmarked vehicles by soldiers in gas masks definitely doesn’t sound like the America I know. At least paint the name of the organization to which the vehicle belongs to on the vehicle.
And spraying teargas at people simply chanting slogans? this is not even unique to the feds. in the beginning of the protests i saw live video of people being teargassed for protesting after curfew. Why was that necessary? in many big cities, Dallas for example, police simply arrested 100’s of protesters, loaded them on buses and drove them to the station. So then why the need to teargas peaceful protesters?
Very scary.
I hope Trump did not push for the army to use these scare tactics as this will definitely change my perception of him.

Psssst. Deblasio.

PS Antifa is the equivalent to the martial arts in the punk world. They generally hold leftists views. Rioting and looting is as much part of their lore as the Boy Scouts’.

Health,
“ I doubt that they are breaking any Law!”
And I don’t really care about that. I just have a problem with soldiers in unmarked minivans pulling people off the sidewalk. If they were in a convoy of humvees it wouldn’t bother me as much.

“ That’s the purpose of Law enforcement.”
Actually not. The purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law. There are better ways to do that then acting like the KGB.

“ Do you know the meaning of “CURFEW”?”
Yeah, it means that after this time you get arrested. Teargas is for when violence is necessary.

“ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.

“If they are doing something wrong – they be held accountable.”
actually not, because when you don’t know who someone is, then you can’t hold them accountable. That’s why police wear identification tags, which these agents don’t have.

“I’m sure they recognized the guy as a Perp.”
Could be, but that’s why i said they should use marked vehicles.

“They needed to do unmarked vehicles for the Element of Surprise”
The gain is not worth the loss.

“This has nothing to do with Commy Russia.”
Well whether you like it or not the fact is that they are using the same tactics.

“To arrest s/o – they have to be Tried in a Court of Law.”
Actually, what happens when responsible cities arrest protestors is they take them down to the station, process them which can take a while and then let them free. it usually takes a few hours, but no courts are involved. The idea is just to annoy the protestors so that they shouldn’t want to do it again.

And again,
“ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.

DMB -“The gain is not worth the loss.”

I guess that You don’t Understand! The Federal Agents are there to arrest people.
That would require an Element of Surprise. NOT Letting them get a chance to get Away.

“Actually, what happens when responsible cities arrest protestors is they take them down to the station, process them which can take a while and then let them free. it usually takes a few hours, but no courts are involved. The idea is just to annoy the protestors so that they shouldn’t want to do it again.”

So, that’s exactly the problem. For years & years – this Liberal idea of this deterrant doesn’t Work. No one is scared to get arrested, if there is No Serious Punishment. So far, in the Cities, No one is scared Not to go out & RIOT! This is Not the Case, when the Feds arrest you!

Dear Health,
Americans are not wimps.

Health,
“ this Liberal idea of this deterrant doesn’t Work. No one is scared to get arrested, if there is No Serious Punishment. So far, in the Cities, No one is scared Not to go out & RIOT!”
What in the world are you talking about? When I said the sentence that I quoted I was talking about peaceful protests! Do you know how to follow a conversation?

“ The Federal Agents are there to arrest people.”
And as I said before, “ The gain is not worth the loss”. I think you forgot to address that.

“And again,
“ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.”

Som1,
“ i dare you to tell me how arresting people who have looted stores, started fires, threw things at officers and assaulted officers , or dispersing illegal gatherings , is not enforcing laws”
It is, but as I said, I don’t like the method of having soldiers in camouflage piling out of unmarked minivans and pulling people off the streets, whether or not those people are guilty. There are better ways of doing this.

(PS: when I said “ That’s why police wear identification tags, which these agents don’t have“ I didn’t know that the agents are wearing the symbol of their agencies which they are, but there is still no way of knowing who individual agents are. Although I do recognize that there is a problem of doxing. But my main issue is the unmarked car tactic being used in Portland)

Dear Health,
When you were arrested, you cooperated because you were fearful that the Police may kill you or, because you knew that it would be worse in the long run to resist arrest? [Or, some other reason.]

Health,
They were after curfew in the 1st week or 2. And that makes sense. The problem was that some cities deployed teargas at peaceful protests after curfew.

The problem was that some cities deployed teargas at peaceful protests after curfew.

If the participants are breaking the law by ignoring the curfew, it’s not a peaceful protest, it’s a group of criminals. They should get a warning to leave, but if they fail to do so, the police are within their rights to use forceful measures to enforce the law.

DMB -“By a peaceful protest, even if it is after curfew, teargas is not needed. When unnecessary force is used we call it police brutality.”
From YWN -“As the crowd grew — authorities estimate there were 4,000 present at the peak of the protest…
Later, protesters vigorously shook the fence surrounding the courthouse, shot fireworks towards the building and threw glass bottles. Many times these actions were met by federal agents using tear gas and flash bangs.”

IMHO, I believe that the Feds acted with much Restraint!
They should have cleared the area as soon as the Curfew started.

There’s no solution.
Everyone is corrupt.
No matter what we change someone will suffer for it.

That’s golus

New body cam from Chauvin’s.
Nytimes-The video offers the fullest portrait yet of the tragic events around Mr. Floyd’s killing. It begins with officers driving to the scene, after a convenience store clerk called 911 and said a man had used a counterfeit $20 bill, and it ends showing officers on the street discussing what happened, after Mr. Floyd is driven away in an ambulance. At one point, in footage not previously seen, the officers are shown dragging Mr. Floyd to the ground after he resisted being put in the squad car.
Once he was on the ground, as Mr. Floyd again said he couldn’t breathe, and asked for water, and begged for his life, Derek Chauvin, the senior officer on the scene, said, in a nonchalant, almost mocking, tone, “takes a heck of a lot of oxygen to say that.”

The footage provides more detail into the action of Mr. Chauvin, who has been charged with second-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter for keeping his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for more than eight minutes while he gasped for life. He was later pronounced dead at the hospital.

As the minutes ticked by, and Mr. Floyd became quieter and his body went limp, one officer checked his pulse and said he couldn’t find one.

Mr. Chauvin’s response, uttered with no emotion, was, “uh huh.”

Just before, after being told that Mr. Floyd appeared to be passing out, Mr. Chauvin appears to express more concern for his fellow officers than the man dying under his knee.
“You guys all right, though?” he said.

“My knee might be a little scratched, but I’ll survive,” responded another officer, Thomas Lane.

The footage was made available for viewing Wednesday to the public and media by appointment at the Hennepin County Government Center in downtown Minneapolis — in a conference room with a dozen laptop stations — but was not allowed to be copied or recorded.

Doesn’t seem like such a nice guy, eh?

Dear Doing,
Good policing is, to use tear gas on a protest that does not disperse. The main problem in the present is that there are so many people that have nowhere to go after. (Homeless, unemployed, etc.)

Dear Health,
What is the reason that criminal should fear the Police? All it would get, is more officers being harmed during every day arrests. I cannot fathom what kind of deterrent would have helped make the arrest go smoother in any of these high profile cases.

nOmesorah -“Why is Mr. Floyd not innocent until proven guilty?”

Of course he would be, but he’s dead.
He’s NOT on Trial.

“What is the reason that criminal should fear the Police?”

This would decrease the desire to do a criminal act.
It wouldn’t stop e/o, though.

You mean like we did after yankele rosenbaum, the monsey stabbing, and the jersey city murders?

Dear Health,
So, if Mr. Floyd is still presumed innocent, why do you keep referring to him as a criminal? [And, as resisting arrest for criminal motives.]

Fear of the police, would not stop crimes. It would stop them from being reported. I would not call the Police for an active robbery, if we are more afraid of the Police than the criminals. And it for sure would make no difference, in these high profile cases. They mostly involve incompetent, or vicious cops filing to make an ordinary arrest.

nOmesorah -“So, if Mr. Floyd is still presumed innocent, why do you keep referring to him as a criminal? [And, as resisting arrest for criminal motives.]”

Did you research what happened in Minn. before you came to Post on YWN?
Floyd was convicted of many Crimes – way before the incident of his Death!

“Fear of the police, would not stop crimes. It would stop them from being reported.”

It would make people Think Twice before they would Act, if their actions could be viewed as Criminal!

nOmesorah -“The one violent crime (Was it armed robbery?), he was not positively ID’d. Though, he did plead guilty. More like a typical low class nice guy on drugs.”

Why do you post things that can’t be True?!?
This is very Extreme Liberalism.
Yes, he was Convicted on Home Invasion with Armed Robbery.
The impression that you’re trying to give is Blatantly FALSE!
You don’t need a Positive ID to find s/o Guilty of a Crime.
It was through the Police Investigation that they found him & Convicted him.
He decided on his own to plead Guilty.
Probably because he figured that the Judge would be lenient.

From SCOPES:
“About three months later, investigators in the Houston Police Department narcotics unit “came across this vehicle during one of the their respective investigations and identified the following subjects as occupants of this vehicle at the time of their investigation: George Floyd (Driver)…,” the statement reads.
At 6-foot-7, Floyd was identified as the “the largest” of the six suspects who arrived at the home in the Ford Explorer and had pushed a pistol against Henriquez’ abdomen before looking for items to steal. (Nothing in the court documents suggests she was pregnant at the time of the robbery, contrary to what memes and Owens later claimed.) He pleaded guilty in 2009 and was sentenced to five years in prison. He was paroled in January 2013, when he was almost 40 years old.”

This isn’t – “like a typical low class nice guy on drugs”.
So STOP Trying to MANIPULATE the Readers on YWN!!!

“You don’t need a Positive ID to find s/o Guilty of a Crime.”

The Talmud says you do. Our judicial system does not meet even the minimal standards demanded by the Torah for Noachide courts.

“Convicted on Home Invasion with Armed Robbery.”

Which is not a death penalty offense in the US. The police executed him without trial, without due process.