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Some friendly comments for our esteemed baalei tefilla… not you, the other ones, don’t worry:
You can’t just say the first pasuk and last pasuk of a perek of tehillim in pesukei d’zimra and mumble a bit in between. You should say everything. Yes I was five minutes late, so it’s my fault, but reaching yishtabach just 10 minutes after the start time of davening? C’mon! The pesukim are supposed to get us in a proper frame of mind for davening, not leave us breathless by barchu. Then I adjust my tefillin and you’re at v’chulam poschim already? Also, tachanun through aleinu is not a race. There’s no stopwatch, and no world record to set. Let’s not be like horses racing back to the barn. Where’s the fire?
Whew! Thanks for listening. I feel better now. I can be pretty fast when I need to be, but that was crazy.
Ever daven at a Matzah Minyan?
Where’s the fire?
I was once at a minyan where a guy actually yelled that out in the middle of davening.
Was that you?
Was it a barnfire?
Why does it take you so long to put your tefillin on?
What is a Matzah Minyan? (18 minute Shachris?)
I will say the following , Many shuls have to deal with differnt factions on Davening, Some people like longer davenings and others need to get to work and if you dont try to satisfy as many people as you can there might not be a mInyan. The guy who will late to work might not come
Matza Minyan = 18 minutes and out.
Avram in MD – I understand your point…just 2 questions. Does the davening start with Brochos or R’ Yishmael? Nussach Ashkenaz or Nussach Sfard?
I have found hat most weekday minyanim take between 30 – 35 minutes.
When I lived in Monsey, the 1st minyan in Beis Yisroel was very fast.
They used to say “18 minutes from hoidu to the George Washington Bridge”Avram
Ive been on these discussions and one of 2 things happen either the people who need to go complain and demand a faster minyan or they quietly vote with their feet and dont come . In many places there are plenty of people for a minyan and its not a problem, but others no so much especially where you have to beg and plead people to come
40-45 Mins will only cut it in a Yeshivish Minyan where people dont have to rush
Avram and ZD: When I said “most minyanim” I should have qualified by saying here in NYC. Most of the shuls in my neighborhood do not say korbanos. They start with Brochos and skip to R’ Yishmael. In my shul it takes approximately 35 – 40 minutes depending who davens for the amud.
The first minyan in my shul is tied to the train schedule, the second minyan is slower. What justifiably irks people is when retirees who could go to the second minyan come to the first and complain it’s too fast and try to slow it down
the chasm sofer z”tl was asked why he davend so extremely long
wasn’t it bitul torah he answerd the chazal say those that are macrichin [stretch out[ the re tifols hashem gives them a longer life so he said if one lives longer he can make up the learning
so you see me my friends you only gain by davenig slowNone of us are on the level of the Chassam Sofer, Only the Chassam Sofer was on the level of the Chassam Sofer.
Some people if they think they can try to be on his level will not only fail but get discouraged
I recall a Shavuos I decided to try something different and went to a hotel for yom tov. I didn’t know much about the place other than its high kashrus standards. It was a somewhat run down bungalow colony-like place etched into the side of a steep mountain in some out of the way village I had never heard of.
I was pleasantly surprised at the crowd at the minyanim and settled in for what I expected would be a very yeshivishe davening. Imagine my surprise when I found myself on a speeding Maariv locomotive the first night!
I was in for my biggest surprise by Megillas Ruth. Until then, my only Megillah experience had been listening to a baal koreh read out loud, so I patiently waited wondering about the delay. My wondering abruptly ended with the sudden outburst of Kaddish d’rabbanan and the realization that not only had everyone else read the Megillah to themselves, but had done so at a most astonishing speed!
Bluhbluh: as a Baal Korei I can tell you that reading to myself takes less time then when I lein in public. It takes me about 10 minutes to lein Rus in public.and it’s a regular Kaddish after the Megillah not a Kaddish D’rabbonon.
Avram in MD: I do agree with you that there is a point when it becomes “too fast”. The description you give does lend to being “too fast”. The minyan where I daven isn’t tied to an end time. We try to finish (starting from Rabbi Yishmael) in 33 minutes (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday ) and 38 minutes (Monday & Thursday) to accommodate those who have to be in work early. If we don’t then they just leave before Aleinu.
As to your question: “Also, what is the limud zechus for ultra-fast davening on Yom Tov, such as blubluh’s experience?” No time was actually given. We don’t know the paramaters of what bluhbluh calls fast. I once davened for the amud at a Bungalow Colony on the first night of Shavuous. Maariv took 12-15 minutes. Is that fast? What is extra then on a weeknight? Using the proper nussach? Yom Tov Shemona Esrei has less words then the weekday shemona esrei.
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