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what does that have to do with feeling bad? i’m still in a cast!
moish- I do not need you to say anything. I do not need you to do anything. I do not need you to buy a black hat… Do YOUSELF a favor
btw- why is buying a black hat suckerish? Who exactly are you “giving into”? Not your yetzer hara- that’s for sure. If you went and bought a hat, I bet you’d give him a severe black eye, a right hook and down with that monster for a good while. That kinda strength don’t look suckerish to me
Yes, I’m a stranger. I can’t argue with that. But do you FEEL like I’m a stranger? I honest to goodness feel like my hand is around your shoulders (or- depending on the post- shaking your shoulders to knock sense into you). Perhaps I don’t know what you look like, but I doubt your friends know the really deep stuff I do know about you.
Is that not close enough?
Just please- stop, think, take a break, and absorb what’s happened since you joined the CR. Please do this now- before you get your cast removed. Once you’ve been dead honest with yourself, you can answer your own questions: “is it for real? do i want to buy that? and is it worth it right now?”
Focus people focus.
Let’s keep this on topic.
Whoops. So moish, do you prefer to get your milkshakes with a minyan and no hat, or biyechidus with a hat (so noone sees it)?
i’m not usually up till close to 1:00 which is when i have my morning milkshake. and there’s no minyan then… so i do have it biyechidus… and no hat – how many guys do you know wear a black hat when they’re in pajamas?
by the way squeak, you know “noone” is not a word, right? a smart guy like you wouldn’t wanna go through life with a huge spelling/grammar mistake 😉
areivimzehlazeh: wow you said amazing stuff today!!! shkoyach!!!
hey asdfghjkl – don’t i get a “shkoyach?” i READ all those “amazing stuff” that he said today!
moish01: shkoyach!!! i’m proud ya read all his amazing stuff….now all ya gatta do is take it to heart!!!!!
who says i don’t?
by the way, moderator did i post a reply to areivim? i think so.
moish01: great moish!!!! you make me proud!!!
hey i took it to heart before he even said it.
moish01: i’m so happy then!!!
hey don’t get so excited. you know i always read the posts and take them seriously. (the serious ones, i mean)
ames: you said great stuff too!!! as always!!!
ames: your posts were great!!!
moish01: ok ok man!!!
moderator: i’m not sure if my last one went through cuz my computer’s having issues. if it did, please delete this one.
areivim. i really answered you yesterday but i don’t know why it didn’t go up. so here i try again.
first of all, i didn’t mean that only suckers wear hats. i meant that for me it would be the absolute stupidest, most FAKE thing in the world. and putting on a show for the rest of the world is for suckers.
as nice and well meaning as all these virtual friends on here sound, they’re still not my life. i DO have another whole life that i’m not about to just ditch.
do you realize what you’re asking me to do? (i know what you’re gonna say: “i’m not asking you to do anything” but honestly, that’s what you would LIKE to ask me to do. and that’s what you’re not so subtly hinting.)
you’re basically asking me to give up everything that i have going for me. my whole social life. for what? in exchange for a few virtual friends, as i call them.
sounds worth it? not to me.
and by the way, you think you know me. you don’t. you only see a tiny part.
(i’m so sorry mods that you have to read through all my gobblygook before approving :()
moish- I logged in to YW today JUST to see your response here. Guess what? I don’t have an answer, but I do have a lot to say (poor you).
One point at a time:
I did mention it’s a heavy turnaround and this is huge stuff. It’s ultimately your decision.
I was mulling over all that’s been said and I came to realize that a big part of your struggle is due to you being the oldest. A lot is expected of the oldest. The oldest has responsibilities, they’re mature beyond they’re years, they do not have older siblings to follow, look up to or ask advice of. The list goes on- you were probably expected to be a sort of role model. And being the demanding(on yourself), brilliant, perfectionist that you are- the second you made a mistake, or in your eyes you didn’t fully perform/live up to expectations, you just dropped the whole thing and took the easy way out. Now you’re enjoying easy street and all the non-pressure there.
But this “break” you took in life will have to end some time soon. Wouldn’t you rather be in control and make conscious decisions rather than just being swept along with the whole crowd of what’s hip and the in thing to do?
You do not have to drop your entire life at a shot. Just start. Start working on something small. When you get used to it, move onto something else- also small. You’ll build like that for a long while. Hopefully, at this point, you will have involved others and they become your new support system, friends etc. You will integrate into a different life style that automatically surrounds you with different type of people.
I am not one of those that changed from Z to A. It was mostly internal. And along the way things around me changed subtly. Only now, when I look back, do I realize- wow- I really changed.
I have no right to ask you to do anything. But please at least consider where and what you’re up to in life and what has happened to your way of thinking since you joined the CR.
PS- listen to your heart
and… change takes years- please go easy on yourself and have patience
i’m really sorry that post is so long. I hate reading the really long ones, so I’ll understand if you just ignore the whole thing
woah.
a sucker is also someone who’s a tag-along or does what everyone else is doing, but doesn’t really fit in. that’s my opinion.
yeh, i’m the oldest but i don’t think that’s a big deal. my siblings are fine with me. no issues at all. my parents are ok (maybe my dad’s a little better at this stuff, but that’s just his personality. my mom’s a push-over who probably just cries.) but i don’t think it makes any difference.
you think i took the easy way out? probably to some extent. but you don’t know what i went through till then. and even after – till i became comfortable with myself. now i can’t dump everything – i’d be so lost i wouldn’t fit in anywhere. i’m not saying that i’m the “leader” but i’m not a nobody with my friends. never was – even in yeshiva. i can’t make myself into that – for god’s sake i’m 16!
i’m sure i’ll change one day. but right now i don’t think i WANT to. things are fine. i just get this really big guilty feeling every once in a while and i remember stuff i learned… that’s the only killer… it’s really the only thing i wish i could change, but that’s not possible without changing my whole life.
you said take it slowly. great. i can imagine not smoking pot. but i can’t imagine not playing football on shabbos or not touching girls. so take it slowly? i could give up the things that aren’t technically assur – it’s the biggies that i can’t do.
no i was actually trying to write a coherent answer. i hope the mods don’t boycott me for that one.
i’m waiting for you to say that it’s a GOOD thing that i didn’t get my cast off.
(idiot of a doctor… well maybe not – he knows i’m gonna play ball…)
I’m shaking from the responsibility that has fallen into my lap.
Well, I don’t have a Rav sitting here, so what can I say? You win, you had the last word- and I’ll keep davening for you.
just some notes on what you said:
“now I can’t dump everything “-
Stop thinking in the extremes! nobody said to dump everything at once. Do it gradually and it won’t feel like “dumping”
“it’s the biggies that I can’t do”-
Precisely- nobody can. That’s why you start small. You start changing. The biggies become medium cuz you’ve changed inside- as a person- what you really yearn for, what you really want out of life. You will have more control over your mind, actions and decisions.
Hatzlacha! Hatzlacha! Hatzlacha!
oiy- you make me krechtz at such a young age
always remember- you need an encouraging word? a pat on the back for fighting your yetzer hara? You can always come to the CR- we support you every tiny step of the way
(that almost sounds corny- as you’d call us your virtual friends 😉
areivimzehlazeh
i hate you. why do you make me want to care? is that your goal?
moish- I gotta get outta here. good luck man! ttyl
i was just reading this thread- http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/kid-off-the-derech there’s some interesting stuff on there that might be good for this thread
areivim, i was ready to drop this whole thread but you’re killing me here. i’m in the worst mood on earth and guess who i’d like to blame
a long one again- sorry!
moish- go right ahead. As Joseph once mentioned “I’m like a sponge, lay all your blame at my feet…” (I quote him like ma’amarei chazal- ha!)
btw- I barely slept last night and was jumping outta my skin today from worry, nervousness, tenseness…. I don’t even know what to call it any more. I want to help you out but don’t know how much further you’ll let me go.
Also, I’m far from adequate help, so I need to enlist others. But you’re so reluctant to get others involved. I wish you would visit one of these kiruv websites. All your questions and asking for direction can be completely anonymous. Once you feel more comfortable (or maybe more desperate for real talk, advice, friendship etc.) you can take it further- get involved face to face with the organization you were dealing with.
I’m really at a loss, and yet I’m terrified to just let it ride from here. Somehow I feel very responsible for the outcome and I take my responsibilities very seriously.
Did everyone completely stop reading this topic cuz it was solely between moish & myself?? Hello- anybody out ther?
I’m shaking from the responsibility that has fallen into my lap.
-areivim
areivim,
I’ve been following this thread and I’ve got to say that you have major talent. You know how to show in writing that your posts come straight from your heart and your caring and sensitivity shines thru. I think you should be using this new-found talent to advise and encourage a lot.
moish,
I’m sorry you’re in a bad mood, but I think that the fact that areivim’s words can get you into a bad mood shows that deep down you want very badly to change. And like areivim said, it doesn’t have to be any major change. Pick one small area to work on and I think your mood will improve dramatically.
areivim,
I’ve been following this topic closely but keeping my mouth shut because nothing I say can come close to what you’re saying.
yeah and i thought that was the freakiest thing he ever said on here.
YOU didn’t sleep last night? about time you joined the club… no honestly i feel really bad about that. gee maybe you should drop this whole thing.
i wasn’t gonna tell you this but i feel a little bad not to – i davened at 9 this morning – i wanted to for the guys in japan. (don’t worry, i went to sleep after that!) i don’t think it’ll last but i thought you’d wanna hear anyway.
WHAT are you doing to me? i feel like the biggest idiot… i need to get this cast off NOW! anyway, my friend got his license so we’re going out tonight (legally!)
god! i feel like i’m be analyzed to pieces
moish, it doesn’t make it any less wonderful that you did it for the guys in japan and that you went back to sleep afterwards. You davened and Hashem is proud of you! And you should be proud of yourself too! Keep up the great work!
moish,
how’s your mood now?
How about now? 🙂
ames, you wanna know how many of my friends care as much as he does? a nice-sized group.
charlie, real horrible. got into an argument with a friend and it’s killing me.
moish- I AM THE HAPPIEST PERSON ON PLANET EARTH RIGHT NOW. so tell me again- what did you do this morning?
charlie- I needed that encouragement. You have no idea how small and insecure i’m feeling. I didn’t ask anyone’s advice when writing everything I did. I have no idea if what I’m saying is right, smart or just completely stupid. Everything was just straight from my heart and on to the keyboard. Who gives me the right to push my feelings on someone else? I’m just so carried away with this whole thing. I daven for moish and… for binah, chachmah v’da’as- lots and lots of it. Cuz moish really pushes me to the limit 😉
aint it great there are NO secrets in the CR
moish- really. I am so completely ECSTATIC for you! Baruch Hashem
i said it once and i think i wanna take it back. it’s not the biggest deal. i’m not anti-frumkiet or anything.
and don’t get your expectations too high. it this 9:00 thing aint lasting – i don’t think i could hack it. god help me the day i need to get a job…
wow great going moish
ames- before the CR, I never used the word “heck”. I hope I don’t begin using it in real life. But I did use it here so that moish can relate to my intense feelings. It’s a pretty strong word
If i would tell you what I did for a living I’d need to be there to catch your eyeballs.
It is one of the most misunderstood professions. On the outside it seems extremely boring and monotonous. However, on the inside, it is an awesome challenge. Every day is refreshing, challenging and stimulating. There’s mountains of knowledge involved. Again- you wouldn’t believe this description if I told you what I did…
I never wanted to get involved in something that deals with other people’s personal lives because the responsibility is huge- and the effects of just one wrong word! oiy
On the other hand- there are so many ppl out there dealing with others that are so unqualified! And are ruining lives right and left… and they don’t realize what they are holding in their hands. They don’t see the seriousness of their responsibilities
This is so off topic- but one of the other things I’m (obviously) passionate about
moish u should just know that i just went to daven mincha now instead of waiting till the last possible sec BECAUSE i read that u woke up to daven…so u get the sechar that i davened
areivim, by the way if you’re feeling so small and insecure (as you say) then why would i buy anything that you’re saying? you don’t even trust yourself. maybe what your saying is “completely stupid.”
honestly, the only reason i actually listened is because i know most of this stuff. it’s all just missing meaning, i think. like i said once before, i could probably fake it and coach another kid.
and i should ask: you’re ECSTATIC for me or for hashem?? or yourself or my parents or what?
thanks, coke. i sure could use it.
ames, I wanted to get up to daven. i don’t think you understand that i only do things if I want to
areivim, what do you do?!
and “heck” is such a strong word? that’s a new one. it doesn’t even cross my mind to not say it – and at home i’m pretty careful…
moish- you really don’t have to listen to anything I say if you don’t WANT to. Maybe what I said was stupid- that’s for you to judge and decide
As to getting my hopes high- that’s where you’ve got it all wrong. We don’t suddenly think “oooh, yes. Look how quickly THAT worked! Now let’s try the next scheme.” I will say this again- you are not “buying” anything cuz we aint sellin anything! THIS IS FOR YOURSELF, for you to decide and take appropriate action.
You davened at 9… good! yes- I’m ecstatic! For that one action alone! I’m not jumping to extremes or looking at the end of the road. I’m looking at this morning and I’m HAPPY. That’s all- one step at a time. And if you don’t do it tomorrow morning- that’s ok (I think).
You should know, taking on davening and getting up early is huge and not advisable to do at one shot. Again- try something small that won’t make such a drastic difference to what you’re basically used to doing. Take this one thing and do it completely, correctly and with meaning.
As to whom I’m ecstatic for: I guess I should be excited for Hashem but I’m not on that level yet. I’m mainly excited for you because you took a step in the right direction and that’s all I’ve wanted to hear since this all started
and moish- you drag the koiychas outta me!
I can’t keep up with every comment…
moish- I know there’s an entire (non)dictionary of “strong” words- but I prefer to stay far away from them. They sound cheap and uneducated (aside for being completely inappropriate for a frum Jew- but we are NOT going into that now)
I can’t reveal what I do- you’ll all barf up all your coffee
coke- that is extremely encouraging! keep it up
no sometimes it’s the perfects word. my mouth isn’t a toilet and i don’t walk around swearing all day but those words have a time and place. at least in my life, they do.
and i don’t think it’s a step in any direction. i probably would have done the same thing 5 months ago. i get into my moods and phases. i hope your wife doesn’t start noticing grey hairs. you’re gonna have a lot of explaining to do…
areivim, i finished my milkshake here and you’re making me so curious. but i don’t wanna pry so i guess i’ll have to mange being curious.
ames, depends on the situation, i guess.
moish- funny you mentioned grey hairs. I had noticed some new WHITE hairs on my head yesterday morn & I thought: gee, that’s a lot o stress.
Supposedly white hair at a young age is hereditary. My brother is about 65% white at the age of 28
Please stay on topic. Thank you
Moderator-55
areivimzehlazeh: there’s so much i feel like saying about your comment today & the chachma your commemts have!!! you seem like an extremly intellegant person, who just loves each & every person!!! you speak from the heart & i know you mean every word you say!!! you should really get into kiruv, your really great at this!!!! hatzlach!!!
moish: wow i’m so excited to hear you davened at 9am-i know everyone’s been sayin it all day and your sick of hearing it already!!! hope ya had fun today & your in a good mood!!!
Areivim ZLZ – What can I sayto you? You are a special neshama, just by virtue of your caring. Yasher koach.
Moishe – small steps also get you where you need to go. I hope your mood is a lot better now. Refuah shelaima, by the way.
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