Home › Forums › Shidduchim › dating YOUNGER
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May 18, 2017 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #1280800bmyerParticipant
If you were a 18-19 year old girl who just started dating would you date a 20 year-old bocher?
If you were a 22 year old girl who’s been dating for 2-3 years would you date a 20 year-old bocher?
May 18, 2017 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1280816JosephParticipantYes to both.
May 19, 2017 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1280857kj chusidParticipantStarting at 20 is pretty late, up to 80 years ago everyone was married at 18 or younger
May 19, 2017 6:56 am at 6:56 am #1280873👑RebYidd23ParticipantNobody said the 20 year old was just starting.
And nuh uh.May 19, 2017 6:57 am at 6:57 am #1280889Ex-CTLawyerParticipantThis isn’t 80 years ago and no one is asking for advice for their grandparents or great grandparents,
Everyone was NOT married at 18 back then.
My parents were married 79 years ago, he was 22, she was 21 .
My paternal grandparents were married in 1919, he was 24, she was 20>>>they waited until he returned from the US army, drafted to serve in WWI
My maternal grandparents were married in 1920, he was 24, she was 20>>>they waited until he finished medical school.All of these marriages took place in NYC, all of these people were born in NY.
The last marriage in our family that had a chasan or kallah 18 years or less occurred in 1856 in Suwalki…they left for America in 1872.May 19, 2017 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1280972MenoParticipantUch not this again.
Someone should just make a table of ages which are appropriate to date/marry each other and sticky it to the front of the CR.
May 19, 2017 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1281043GadolhadorahParticipantThere is no “appropriate” age…its whatever the young man and woman decide its right for them. As more of our young men and women realize the need to obtain the needed education and job skills to earn a parnassah its inevitable that the age of kiddushin will move into the early 20s or later. Some may want to learn and go to college part-time so it will take several years longer to graduate college and finish an advanced degree.
May 19, 2017 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1281054JosephParticipantSome of the finest families I know are with parents who married by 18 or 19.
May 19, 2017 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1281059Ex-CTLawyerParticipantMOST of the divorce cases I’ve handled in the past 40 or so years have been couples who married as teenagers and then grew up and apart.
Both Jews and Gentiles, Religious and nonMay 19, 2017 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #1281077JosephParticipantIn very religious Jewish circles the reality is that those who married youngest have some of the lowest divorce rates. Especially compared to those who married after completing a higher education.
May 19, 2017 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #1281080GadolhadorahParticipantThere will always be some who try to rationalize children marrying children so they can rush to have more children. If thats there hashkafah, thats fine but as CT Lawyer and others have noted, all the empirical studies that have been done, including those of the heimish tzibur here in the U.S. and Chareidi tzibur in EY, the divorce rates are materially higher for those who marry in the 16-19 age bracket versus those who waited a few years. Yes, its legal, but so is marrying your first cousin in 7 states and it doesn’t make it “right”.
May 20, 2017 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #1281090JosephParticipantThat’s factually incorrect. The frum communities with the lowest marriage age averages also have the lowest divorce rates.
And very many Yidden have been happily and successfully marrying their first cousins from the time of Har Sinai through the current times of golus America.
May 21, 2017 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1281133popa_bar_abbaParticipantLiar. You have no idea if you would.
May 21, 2017 8:30 am at 8:30 am #1281174☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantYes, its legal, but so is marrying your first cousin in 7 states and it doesn’t make it “right”.
It seems that the Torah is not where you get your ideas of right and wrong from…
May 21, 2017 9:45 am at 9:45 am #1281226Ex-CTLawyerParticipantUnfortunately, marrying a close relative greatly raises the chance of offspring with mental and/or physical defects.
May 21, 2017 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1281366Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant“Why in the world not?” to both.
May 21, 2017 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1281367GadolhadorahParticipantJust about every medical professional would advise against marrying a first cousin; yes, there are many thingks that are allowed under daas torah but that doesn’t mean you are obligated to do them. The torah allows a number of punishments including stoning for a variety of “crimes’ (putting aside whether or not we have a Sanhedrim), allows for taking multiple wives (putting aside Rav Gershhon’s thoughts on the issue), etc. etc. Just because something is allowed by either Torah or civil law doesn’t mean its a good idea in the context of modern society and norms. I’m sure Joseph may feel its a great idea (and he can find a rav to give him a heter) to marry his 15 YO first cousin but that doesn’t mean 99.9 percent of yidden today would do so.
May 21, 2017 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1281411zaltzvasserParticipantMany people hold by Rabi Yehuda HaChassid and don’t marry first cousins. +1 gadolhadorah
May 21, 2017 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1281396JosephParticipantMarrying first cousins is very far from being uncommon in very many frum communities. Many great rabbonim, both today and yesteryear, are themselves married to their first cousin.
And the Sanhedrin when they were around, in fact, did stone for the crimes the Torah says to. And Teimanim, even today, have multiple wives.
May 21, 2017 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1281397JosephParticipantThey author of that quote has a long history of saying things against the Torah.
May 21, 2017 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1281426JosephParticipantMany people hold by the Arizal and don’t shave or take haircuts for all 49 days of the Omer. Others hold otherwise and shave quicker than a full 49 days.
No one’s forcing anyone to marry their first cousin and no one’s stopping anyone from marrying their first cousin.
May 21, 2017 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1281553☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantMany people hold by Rabi Yehuda HaChassid and don’t marry first cousins
Are those two separate statements? Because I don’t think R’ Yehuda Hachassid wrote about cousins.
May 21, 2017 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1281754Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantI was wondering about that as well. I also didn’t think that R’ Yehuda HaChassid wrote about cousins.
I can’t say for sure since he has a long list and I haven’t memorized it, but I certainly have never heard anyone say that they are opposed to marrying cousins for that reason, even though I have often heard people say that they won’t do other things because of his takanos.
There are a lot of people who refrain from marrying first cousins, but the reasons I generally hear are either genetic or weirdnes (and in at least one case this was from someone who is makpid on some of the takanos of R’ Yehuda HaChassid, yet didn’t mention it as a reason not to marry a first cousin).
May 21, 2017 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #1281757Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantPersonally, I think one of the reasons people are against marrying cousins is because they want their kids to grow up relating to their cousins as brothers and sisters, and once they do that, they can’t be a possible marriage partner.
May 21, 2017 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1281926JosephParticipantHalachically, first cousins are permitted to marry each other, hence they have all the regular Dinei Rrvah and then some. Even HaEzer Siman chuf-beis states that relatives have the din of “Libo Gas Bo”, meaning there are some hateiri of Yichud that while applicable in most cases are not applicable for cousins, who have more restrictions than normal. Shulchan Aruch (E.H. 22:8) and the Aruch Hashulchan (E.H. 22:6) present examples of a man and a woman who grew up together or are related – such as cousins.
May 21, 2017 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1282121mw13ParticipantGH:
all the empirical studies that have been done, including those of the heimish tzibur here in the U.S. and Chareidi tzibur in EY, the divorce rates are materially higher for those who marry in the 16-19 ageJoseph:
That’s factually incorrect. The frum communities with the lowest marriage age averages also have the lowest divorce rates.Can either one of you cite which studies you got these supposed facts from?
May 21, 2017 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #1282165bmyerParticipantThe other thread is asking parents this is asking the girl…would you let yourself but not your kid…?
May 21, 2017 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #1282183mw13ParticipantThe torah allows a number of punishments including stoning for a variety of “crimes’ (putting aside whether or not we have a Sanhedrim)
To set the record straight, the Torah does not “allow” stoning. In certain cases the Torah *mandates* stoning for the violation of certain cardinal laws with eidim, hasrah, and the Sanhedrin. And conversely, if any of those criteria are not fulfilled, the Torah *prohibits* stoning.
In no case is stoning a reshus, left to one’s own preferences.
May 21, 2017 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1282201zaltzvasserParticipant<p style=”padding-left: 30px”>I’m pretty sure it was Rabi Yehuda HaChassid- either way, there was a famous Rabi Yehuda Ha______ who wrote a famous tzava’ah that many people hold by. One of the things he wrote (I think- couldn’t find a source) was not to marry first cousins.
Anyway, we’ve been through this before.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/cousins-marryingMay 21, 2017 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1282224☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantNieces, not cousins.
May 21, 2017 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1282228👑RebYidd23ParticipantWhether or not you marry your cousin is between you and your cousin.
May 21, 2017 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1282234JosephParticipantI couldn’t agree with you more.
May 30, 2017 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1288525LightbriteParticipantAha! Just listened to a TorahAnytime shiur and the rabbi gave another reason why kids were married off early!
Because if you don’t do it now then the next pogrom may come in and leave you broke and unable to marry off your kids!
At least in East Europe, it happened before when someone [insert Rabbi’s name] saved up for his kid’s wedding and then the pogrom hit and then he couldn’t afford it.
He wasn’t saying that this had anything to do with halacha, but I thought that this was an excellent point for this thread.
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See Rabbi Yosef Viener on TorahAnytime:
Hilchot Kibbud Av V’Em: Part 14 – Marriage Choice and Parents Part 2 ☺June 1, 2017 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1288661chabadgalParticipantAnother reason- for arab countries- they would get engaged REALLY young (like under ten, maybe under five) because if they weren’t married they might be forced to marry a muslim for example the orphan law
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