Crazy Shidduch Story

A few things.

Firstly, most chaverims don’t have single men.

Secondly, fixing a stuck steering wheel takes approximately 6 seconds.

Changing a flat takes a lot longer.

Contrary to MM and others, there is nothing weird with making small talk when you’re with someone for 20 minutes or more. (You do it on a date.)

truthsharer, “Firstly, most chaverims don’t have single men.”

well, u cant tell if he is married or not so its a 50 50 chance just like the guy on the highway that stopped.

“Contrary to MM and others, there is nothing weird with making small talk when you’re with someone for 20 minutes or more. (You do it on a date.) “

A date is the right place and timing for a girl and boy to shmooze/chat etc… On the highway with someone random is not the proper setting.

“I once went with my friend to the ice cream store (before i got married) and when we got back to her car she couldnt get it to start. We called Chaveirim and they sent a guy down, we showed him the car, apparently the steering wheel was locked, he got the car to start. We thanked him and he left. The next day my friend sent a check to chaveirim, mentioned the story and that was it! The guy didnt call her to say thank you, for her thank you. That would have been absurd! We didnt think of small talk with the boy while he was fixing the car either! We didnt call to thank him personally. The Hakoras Hatov was there, but in a very modest way. What is this with boys and girls that are so friendly and comfortable with opposite genders. I think it is the Yetzer harah, and he is laughing!”

Phyllis, aside from the obvious differences between your story and the one this thread was started about, there is so much that I find disturbing about your post that I don’t know where to begin. I’ll just say that we all need to be don lecaf zechus (sp). There is no reason to assume that they were following their yetzer harah, assume they were just being polite and thought that their meeting was a sign from Hashem. Just b/c your such a good person that you would never talk to a boy in this manner, even though you could have made a chillul hashem yourself (I’ll assume of course that you did not) does not mean you should hold everyone else to your standards, or even that your standards are proper.

So, I’m curious, according to the side that a shadchan is required, is my marriage kosher b’dieved since I didn’t use a shadchan? 🙂 Or do I need to divorce her, register with a shadchan and date her again?* 🙂

The Wolf

* In reality, we’re still dating anyway… we never stopped. Why let a wedding get in the way of a good dating relationship? 🙂

WolfishMusings; If your still dating it’s not too late to get a shadchan involved.

Start saving up some money. that should make your marriage kosher L’katchiloh.

For an extra fee you have the option of making it Mehadrin min haMehadrin.

Chanukah is coming up, you might want to splurge.

Wolf: I think we can all agree

You’ve got to be kidding.

True oomis and wolf! Its important for a married couple to try and have dates and to go out regularly.

WolfishMusings

OK, perhaps someone can clarify something for me here, because I’m totally confused on one point:

if someone who is in the shidduch parsha just happens to meet someone of the opposite gender that they think they might have an interest in, why shouldn’t the “small talk” be permitted? After all, how else is s/he supposed to determine that this person is/isn’t a potential match?

Or is a shadchan the *only* way to meet someone and if you happen to come across someone in “real life,” you just have to forget it?

The Wolf

What if I just happen to meet someone of the opposite gender who is very nice and interesting and I find attractive, but this person just happens to be a mamzer/mamzeres (literally, i.e. someone who is forbidden from marrrying within the general Jewish population)?

The mamzeres would not be a potential match, but what would stop me from “falling for” the person while I was changing her tire? This is a bad situation. It might be hard to break up such a relationship. It would be better not to have met in the first place.

A mamzer is an extreme example, as most families would frown upon their child “falling for” a person completely kosher to marry but who is outside of a clearly defined band (be it narrow or wide). Case in point – don’t you think that the Montagues would have been much happier overall if their son had agreed to only talk to girls suggested by a matchmaker?

telegrok; Thanks a lot for the interesting op. Thanks even more for the update,

this story gets funnier and cuter as it progresses, and I for one appreciate the fun

you poke at the one dimensional view of some ppl when it comes to shidduchim.

Mezonos Maven wrote

A second problem, as slightly alluded to by Mayan Dvash, is that she is trying to date two guy simultaneously.

No, she is not. She is about to be redt to the chosheveh bochur. That doesn’t mean that she is already dating him. She is worried that if Dovid doesn’t work out than she would want to date chosheveh bochur next. It does not sound like she is currently dating anyone.

True, but as bein_hasdorim pointed out, this story isn’t just shmoozing for no reason. For the purpose of marriage we allow boys and girls to talk. You agree that we allow a boy and girl to go on a date after a shadchan has set them up, so why not allow them to set themselves up? Why would this be any worse? these are two marriageable age yidden who are looking to find their bashert, and Hashem puts them in this situation. Perhaps Hashem is being the shadchan here as is even more evident from the follow up that was posted.

As The Wolf wrote:

I think we can all agree (can we?) that a single person talking with a member of the opposite gender for the sake of shidduchim is permitted, correct? After all, that’s what happens on dates all the time.

However, if someone who is in the shidduch parsha just happens to meet someone of the opposite gender that they think they might have an interest in, why shouldn’t the “small talk” be permitted? After all, how else is s/he supposed to determine that this person is/isn’t a potential match?

Or is a shadchan the *only* way to meet someone and if you happen to come across someone in “real life,” you just have to forget it?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with just meeting someone and trying to see if it will work out. Obviously at some point you will have to look into things a little more (as “moe green” pointed out, what if they are not halachically allowed to marry each other) but this can be done through the aunt without an “official shadchan” getting involved. I think that everything that has happened until now is completely kosher and if they want to continue, the aunt should be involved as the shadchan.

HaQer, that would be a great thing to do, if she can just tell the shadchan “you’re being very unreasonable, feif dich uhn” but I don’t want to think of the repercussions.

;

Telegrok

That’s great!I hope everything works out for the best!!

This entire thread is making my eyes bleed. What are we, in Kindergarten? The shadchanis’ ego was hurt??? What? A nice guy was helpful to a nice girl. If it should turn out that they want to date each other – they should, with or without someone’s intervention. It is nobody’s business, but their own, least of all a shadchan’s. And if that makes a girl un-redting-worthy for the future should this not work out, then the entire system needs a long overdue change. And certain Shadchanim could use some sensitivity training.

“and as far as we know, nothing assur occurred here. “

And if the boy had simply asked her out, are you implying that would have been an ISSUR???? Maybe it would not have been religiously PC according to some people’s opinion, but it certainly is no aveira, and should not be thought of as such. What are we doing to our children’s happiness when we start viewing something innocent, pure, and for tachlis, as being forbidden solely because it did not go through a bona fide professional “yenta?”

NY MOM, perhaps I misunderstood your point, and if so, I AM sorry. But I did get the idea from what you posted that there was an implication that if he had acted on his own, somehow that WOULD be an issur. I may have misread between your lines.

Of COURSE nothing assur occurred, based on what we were told. But even had he actually asked the girls out, THAT would not be assur either. And I really wish for the rest of the world to understand that there are many different ways for shidduchim to come about. As long as the intentions are honorable, we need to chill out a little and not expect everything to always be done through a shadchan, a rov, or even a friend. Sometimes Hashem is the ONLY shadchan and HE throws two people together in order to make that match, and the more we intervene in it, the more likely that things may not turn out so well.

I met my husband because Hashem sent him into my place of work at the right time for me to meet him. There was no human shadchan, I saw a real mensch who was ehrliche and aidel, and when he asked me out I agreed. We are married almost 33 years, and if you think that’s crazy, then that is your privilege. It is not the first nor the last time that people meet each other and realize they are right for each other, without anyone else interfering. Just because something is not done the way you are used to doing it, is not reason enough to call it “absolutely crazy.” These two young people met each other because she had a blowout on the side of the road and couldn’t change her tire. She saw a young man who was willing to stop and take the time to help a female in distress. How many frum guys might have stopped by a female on the road and continued to drive? None of us should ever be so sure of ourselves that we do not believe that Hashem makes things happen HIS way, for a reason.

Had Moshe Rabbeinu not seen the Mitzri beating a Jew and killed him, which resulted in his being forced to flee for his life, he would never have found Tzipporah at the well in Midian. If Yaakov and Esav had not had their issues between them, Yaakov would have never left his home and found the mothers of Klal Yisroel. Who was the shadchan for Rabbi Akiva and Rachel? Certainly not Yenta, the Matchmaker! Not everything that you do not hold by, is crazy. it is just a different venue.

Here’s what happens when people read the first couple posts and skip to the end:

The aunt redt the shidduch!!! . . . they’ve gone out twice.

followed by:

Wow, what a sad story- and what a missed opportunity!

Actually, I feel that my point stands, irrelevant of the fact that this case may have worked out. The point is that this could easily have been a lost opportunity, and that presumably if this happened once, it happens other times, too, where the opportunity is lost.

My father z”l used to say, “afilu az se gelungt zich a narishkeit, bleibt is a narishkeit” – If you do something stupid, even if it works out for you, it was still a stupid thing to do.

The chesed and it’s happy ending should have been promoted as a segulah for a shidduch!

telegrok, please post an update, we want to know 🙂

heres the way i see it. to go out of your way to talk to the opposite gender can be wrong. but here they just met! he’s sitting there changing a tire…what are they supposed to do? just ignore each other? picture for example youre at a friends house, and they have a sibling your age or around your age…are you supposed ignore any attempt at converstaion? thats just plain rude…the circumstances are such that its simply polite. as for the call, why not? a person gives you a gift, the polite thing is to call up and thank them same gender or not.

we get so caught up in the avoiance of the opposite gender that we lose sight of basic decency. true to arbitrarily just walk up to someone of the opposite gender and strike up a conversation may be assur…but if youre in a situation where ignoring each other just makes it akward for the both of you…there is no reason not to talk…its just being polite. another example, is people who go to coed colleges. while they should try to minimize interaction with the opposite gender, its simply unavoidable! to ignore them would simply be rude.

i think the bachur was just being polite, and that the shadchan just messed up a perfect opportunity

<<<Apparently, she was with some of them the other night and one of the other girls made a remark about Stranded’s “giving up” and “settling” for someone who is not “k’lei kodesh.”>>>

Rabosai,

We have just seen the crux of the shiduch crisis. It’s all about outwards perception and having to conform to what other people think.