COVID Vaccine and Fertility

always ask questions

“The core question is – all vaccines by now were tested on a very large number of people, but they were not tested over long period of time. So, then the question is: during long-term testing of vaccines in last, say, 40 years: is it often that a vaccine is seen as safe after 1 year, but problems are discovered after a longer time period.”

No, this is not the core question, this is question has one intended purpose to inject fear from the unknown.

Who says 40 years is enough? why not 60 years?

Since the only way to satisfy this question is to wait 40 years, this achieves nothing but to make people hesitate and confused.

Being that hundreds of millions of people have already taken the vaccine, at this point, if your going to make a claim there needs to be some substance to base the claim on.

Unfounded far-fetched hypothetical claims have one purpose, to avoid people from taking the vaccine.

In the News see:

Israel: 13 Unvaccinated Pregnant & Postpartum Women In Serious Condition

@Huju, ” but very few (if any) addressed the halachic question. Very interesting this coming from somone who stated very openly that you hardly daven, once a day if that, and really don’t respect daas torah, I hope its because you decided to turn a new leaf this year and be mdakdik khalacha, if thats is the case consult your LOR not posters on a website

“but very few (if any) addressed the halachic question”

The very first comment on the thread answered your “question”

with a halachic question the premise has to make sense, and be grounded in reality.

Even if for whatever reason you think the vaccine may cause fertility problems, (whether or not you think the new Oreo flavor does the same) It STILL isn’t a question.

People are not faulted for following doctors. Halacha in fact obligates you to do so.

Aye what do we do if Doctors disagree? Fear not ! halacha addresses that too!

@huju Regarding your “halachic question”. The reason no one gave a proper answer is because it’s not a proper question. It’s an attempt to troll and sow doubt and confusion regarding the COVID vaccine. “If the vaccine sterilizes everyone…. If the sterilization is permanent…” If if if! What if eating challah past 11pm causes a person to grow a bump on their head making them unable to put on teffilin the next day? Halachically, would that man be oiver on an aseh by eating challah at midnight?

TVOP -“Almost non existent. Especially with whatever treatments they do have available…don’t go by my word, just look up the numbers…”

From you on pg. 1:
“I don’t believe he tells older people not to take it, as the benefit outweighs the potential risk, but for a young healthy person he wouldn’t encourage.”

Typical Anti-Vaxxer Manipulation!
In only the USA from Jan.2020 till now, there were around 36,000 Deaths from Covid with people under 50 YO.
It consists of all ages, but babies are the least amount.
Now you go figure out the Rest of the World!

Are you the type that believes Covid is Not worse than a Cold?!?

simple-if your healthy and young, the chance of dying from covid is almost non-existent

And the chance of being harmed by the vaccine is even smaller.

@torahvaluesoverparty I hear your argument. The problem is that even young, healthy people can still potentially pass COVID on to someone who maybe isn’t as young or as healthy. And with all this anti-vaccine propaganda that the frum oilem is unfortunately falling for (k’negged da’as Torah) there are unfortunately many people for whom getting COVID is incredibly dangerous and they are unprotected from all these young, healthy, COVID-19 positive kids running around.

So what? If the original risk is almost “non-existent”, why take another risk — even if it is “smaller”?

Because there’s a bigger risk in not taking it.

Health-interesting that you say I’m “lying” when what your saying I’m lying about is technically subjective.
DY-As of August 18, around 17.5k under 45 died of covid. I believe it was the CDC that said only 6% of covid deaths had no co-morbidities. L’fi my understanding that means just 1050 completely healthy people under 45 died from covid. Out of around 15million(*confirmed cases! The actual number of cases is likely many times higher…) Are you absolutely sure that the risks from the vaccine, both that has already been shown, and possible longer term effects, is lower than the risk of being one of the 1050? My doctor isn’t.
Yserbius, I’ve said previously hat if the vaccine shows it stops transmission then fine I hear the argument, and would agree that the young and healthy should get vaxxed. But that hasn’t shown to be the case. Why else would masks be required after getting vaxxed? In fact I once heard of a study that showed that those who are vaxxed actually contained a higher viral load then those unvaxxed…

I believe it was the CDC that said only 6% of covid deaths had no co-morbidities.

Is it okay if people with co-morbidities die?

Are you absolutely sure that the risks from the vaccine, both that has already been shown, and possible longer term effects, is lower than the risk of being one of the 1050? My doctor isn’t.

Absolutely sure is the wrong metric. If I am sick with pneumonia I might get into a car accident on the way to the doctor, but it’s still wise to go.

It is highly likely that the risk of people getting harmed from the vaccine is lower than getting harmed from Covid (even those who were once infected).

Yserbius > with all this anti-vaccine propaganda that the frum oilem is unfortunately falling for

Can we pin-point what is the source? I have several hypotheses, each might be true to an extent. Any others?
1) Is it simply that some get info from social media and then propagate to those who do not have online source or time/inclination/skills to search? If this is so, then it shows that our community is not protected against online viruses even being in large part offline, as information still travels.

2) Community effect – when you are in a community where nobody takes precautions, you behave like everyone and then start processing information accordingly to justify that.

3) Giving up – given that community is so connected and every family has lots of kids in schools, we were often hit hard early and then there is not much hope to avoid exposure in daily life. If you crum lots of people/kids into a shul/school without good ventilation for a long time, then masks will not help much, short of N95s. Then, like in (2), you have to convince yourself that you are not doing an aveirah by giving credence to any piece of information that justifies your position.

4) Inability to see a big picture of effect on older people, etc – a lot of sickness happens in nursing homes, hospitals, etc, people, B’H are not falling down on the street. So, a little of information, ability to count, and abstract thinking is required and is not alaways avialble.

5) Even as many (most?) Rabbonim are for vaccination, and many are for various measures (capsules, testing, masking), seems like a large part of the community does not hear or does not care. Maybe eople surrounding gedolim and those in charge of media are affected like everyone else and are not emphasizing the message? For example, I saw for the first time this spring that R Edelsteon, Ponevezh, gave his first public lecture – and only to vaccinated students and behind a huge screen. I did not see anything before that he was isolating for a year before. I may have missed that, but maybe it was just not a cool story to publish?

Can we pin-point what is the source?

First show me evidence that frum people are more antivax than the general population them we can discuss your “theories”.

“with all this anti-vaccine propaganda that the frum oilem is unfortunately falling for”

You know what’s so frustrating about your vomit filled anti frum community posts filled with misinformation, lies,(we call this motzei shem rah) and hate? It’s how you play dumb when you get called out, refuse to accept evidence that you are wrong, refusal to retract lies, deflection and pretending you don’t know what we’re talking about or just pretend you never read the response. You write nasty lies with just your dated Amos of experience and go blaming full communities for imagined offenses that you then apply to halachos you made up.

Why in the world are these posts approved and how do you say these things without giving a care to being called out as a liar? If you aren’t a troll, you might want to consider it, you do well in trashing people with conspiracy theories and stepping over the damage without looking back. Except to laugh and pat yourself on the back.

DY, “Is it okay if people with co-morbidities die?” No of course not, you misunderstand, we are weighing the benefits vs potential risk. If a super small percentage of young/healthy die from covid, then the benefits of the vax is minimized to that same extent. Not sure what your comparison to having pneumonia is. And Lf’i this you can’t say with certainty that “It is highly likely that the risk of people getting harmed from the vaccine is lower than getting harmed from Covid”
AAQ-“you are comparing 1000 who died with “risk from vaccine”. you need to compare it with the “risk of dying from vaccine”, or risk of sickness from both.” Your correct, i’m not trying to suggest specific side effects, i’m just trying to relay the general worries and line of thinking some doctors have.

DY > First show me evidence that frum people are more antivax than the general population

a good question. We may not be more, depends what your baseline is. I implicitly compare Jews I know with non-Jews I know professionally and this may not be a fair comparison. Furthermore, what we see in the street does not include people who are not in the street. Still, I’d like to understand what is the source of the movement. We have here people posting information but it is hard to pin-point what lead them to this position.

> When you make dumb comments like this

Apologize for the joke.

Looks like we should of put trigger warnings on this thread, it seems some people are having issues with the information being discussed.

@torahvaluesoverparty See “How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says – Nature” for one example of many. There is clear evidence that vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the virus, even the Delta variant.

And this discussion about co-morbidities is dangerous narischkeit. Would you say that a mugger that hits and elderly woman isn’t liable if she dies because she had a heart problem? We are weighing the potential benefits against the risk. You’re merely ignoring the benefits and exaggerating the risks. The benefits are clear, the vaccine protects you and people around you from COVID. The risks are clear, millions of people taking each vaccine less than a few dozen cases of some sort of major issue. And it’s not “we don’t know the risks yet” because we absolutely do. No one should reject a highly beneficial treatment just because it hadn’t yet gone through four generations of testing.

@always_ask_questions

I think it depends on the community. To add to your bullet points, many frum communities have an automatic and intense distrust of the government and this plays into it. Also, I know one community in particular where there is a highly influential member of the Rabbonus who is an anti-vaxxer. Because of this, no Rav wants to be seen as going against this individual, so this community has never had any major kol koirehs or campaigns to get people vaccinated (despite the pleadings of the local doctors, the Chevra Hatzalah, and setting up frum run vaccination centers). I guess they feel that keeping shalom and showing unity is more important.

I find your point about social media interesting. Several anti-vaxx Yeshivish people who don’t have regular internet access I’ve spoken with have said that they “did the research”. Which I’m not sure what it means, as “doing the research” without internet is speaking to local doctors, calling up hospitals and health centers and such. But when asked to clarify they either respond with vague statements (“Many people died from it, you know”) or admit to getting it from weird internet sites(“You can’t trust Google”).

Torahvalues – what?! You aren’t gonna cut ties with your trusted doctor even tho an anonymous poster thinks you should because your doctor doesn’t seem to be following his personal emotional opinion? I’m floored

maybe something is lost in transmission or translation. Could you please clarify what exactly is your doctor saying.

More on possible reasons for anti-everything movement:
maybe Jewish community became too comfortable in US gwtting into a Yeshurun state of mind. We have established communities, built institutions, have places for comfortable vacations. So, a disruptive event that requires changing lifestyle in some way is rejected emotionally. What do you mean I cannot travel to my favorite vacation spot because of some invisible reason? I am doing so many mitzvos, please do not distract me with the unseen reality.

Just playing an uncomfortable game of hardball to see if the point sinks in.