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While there are some things people might do incorrectly, we should also keep in mind that people follow different Rabbis and what one person might deem to be “wrong” another posek might deem correct.
Eat cholov akum when there’s no shas hadchak.
Call cholov stam cholov akum.
bow at barchu (not torah reading barchu but tfilla barchu)
being in the food & hashgacha business for over a decade already.
these are the 2 MOST COMMON chillul shabbos i have seen in frum heimeshe homes all around.
1)washing cherry tomatoes in their containers on shabbos (pure borer. the containers have holes in them….)
2)sweeping your house floor with a straw broom on shabbos (forbidden for same reason a person is not allowed to comb her hair on shabbos, cause you MIGHT pull out hair even though its unintentional its forbidden. a straw broom the peices come out versus the big school brooms-which they make in small too-the short strings on locked into the broom & don’t come out)
this always shocked me to see it hundreds of times in frum torah homes in frum communities. you don’t need to be an expert in hilchos shabbos or be a rabbi to know this. the first time i learnt Rabbi Ribiats hilchos shabbos sefer (over 1400 english pages-not artscrool 700 hebrew & 700 english) it only took me 2 weeks after finishing it to realize its time to learn it again. how do you expect to remember over 1400 pages?
1) You’re not using the holes to separate between a mixture. The water is merely flowing through.
I don’t know anyone with a straw broom.
DY – Why not? You’re separating the tomatoes from the dirt.
no sin in life is ever allowed to be done even if its unintentional. (if someone by going to a business meeting in a treife restaurant might by mistake eat treif C”V Then he is not allowed to go) its sad people don’t know these halachos. the container is made purposely so they can be washed out in the container thus causing you to do borrer. consult your LOR & they will tell you that a person needs to put the cherry tomatoes in a bowl of water & rinse them and then take them out of the bowl
Health, if there is a significant amount of dirt, there is a borer issue, but why would the holes make it worse?
Cherry tomatoes usually come clean in the box, though, and edible as is, so a quick rinse for hygiene (or the perception of it) shouldn’t be a problem.
If the cherry tomatoes would float around in the box, it might be a mixture between the tomatoes and the water, but they don’t.
Additionally, if there were no holes, it would be a problem, because soaking fruit to have the p’soles float to the top is derech borer.
Hold up
MAshiach agent
“no sin in life is ever allowed to be done even if its unintentional.”
You do know this isnt true. right?
Especially by hilchos Shabbos. Where mileches machsheves is required. But even by other halachos It is used though not as much.
I am not saying if unintentional it is automatically allowed but it isnt always assur either. Eg. davar sheino miskaven if it isnt a pisik reisho is allowed in some cases.
DY -“Health, if there is a significant amount of dirt, there is a borer issue, but why would the holes make it worse?
Cherry tomatoes usually come clean in the box, though, and edible as is, so a quick rinse for hygiene (or the perception of it) shouldn’t be a problem”
Your mistake is – why they are washing the vege. They want to get off the pesticides. So using a “holy” box wouldn’t be allowed!
What ubiquitin said. If you read through Rabbi Ribiat’s entire book, then either he or you (and I’m guessing it’s you) kinda missed an important concept.
washing cherry tomatoes in the container on shabbos THE WATER-itself-IS CONSIDERED BAD while the tomatoes are good & you are separating the water by letting it through the holes
Health, your mistake is conflating two issues.
The container with holes in it is not separating any mixture. The only thing to even talk about is that it holds back the solids and allows the liquid to escape, but it’s not truly considered a mixture, as I mentioned (see ‘??”? ??”? ??”? ?).
The other issue is the dirt mixed in with the fruit (in this case the cherry tomatoes). There is what to discuss (although many poskim are meikil, including R’ Shlomo Zalman and R’ Moshe, to wash fruit right before eating), but this has nothing to do with the holes whatsoever. I also don’t know if the pesticides qualify as p’soles.
MA, they are not considered mixed. See ‘??”? ??”? ??”? ?.
men that let their wives wear skirts that ALWAYS rise above the knee when sitting
It doesn’t have to even be “always”; even if it is sometimes it is just as wrong.
Is it just as wrong for someone to always eat treif as it is to occasionally eat treif? I would think always is worse.
Agreed and modified to reflect that point. My underlying point was it is wrong “even” if it is sometimes.
Cherry tomatoes usually are sold in plastic baskets.
DY -“I also don’t know if the pesticides qualify as p’soles”
I think it is! And you’re washing it off with a Keli (holy basket).
I think what DY has so clearly demonstrated with his responses is that the most common mistake people ( I.e. MA and Joseph ) is that the halachic psak that they follow ( even when not misinterpreted ) is the only acceptable point of view
No, Health, you are washing it off with water, and the keili is not separating a mixture. Did you see the halachah in Shulchan Aruch I referred to? P’soles is often subjective, cso for you pesticide might very well be p’soles, but the keili isn’t a factor.
LC, undoubtedly, there are some common mistakes made, but you are correct that not everything someone thinks is a mistake is, and some of these are examples of that.
DY -“No, Health, you are washing it off with water, and the keili is not separating a mixture. Did you see the halachah in Shulchan Aruch I referred to? P’soles is often subjective, cso for you pesticide might very well be p’soles, but the keili isn’t a factor”
Even though the water does it, it’s being helped by the holes. Isn’t this a Sofek D’oraysah?
The holes are not helping remove the dirt or pesticides at all.
I don’t see a safek.
Please, people, however you hold regarding the cherry tomatoes, the word to describe the container with holes is spelled ‘holey.’ Siz nisht heilig, es nar hat lokhen.
MRS PLONY -“the word to describe the container with holes is spelled ‘holey.'”
It was a pun!
Oh.
Post in the ywn coffe room
DY -“The holes are not helping remove the dirt or pesticides at all”
It’s like Befayrush Osser!
See S’A 319 #8 MB #30 & Biur Halacha there.
Bowing at Barechu is a legitimate minhag. Look in the siddur (Artscroll).
Any response Daas Yochid to my post?
I told you to look at #9, which is the similar case.
Talking during davening and using the internet
Why can’t you talk while using the Internet?
DY -“I told you to look at #9, which is the similar case”
No, it’s not. Did you look at what I told you to?
Yes.
As far as pesticide not having a din of p’soles, see here:
DY -“As far as pesticide not having a din of p’soles, see here…”
I looked at it. As far as I’m concerned, I agree with him. The case over here is with holes in a basket. This should be Osser! Again – See S’A 319 #8 MB #30 & Biur Halacha there.
Again, I saw it, and again, it’s not similar. There, the dirt is p’soles and mixed with the ochel, and they are being separated by the holes.
Here, the water is never mixed with the cherry tomatoes (again, see #9), and the pesticide is not p’soles. Even if it were, or if there was dirt, it’s a machlokes, but has nothing to do with the container. If you wash fruit on Shabbos, this is no worse.
Earlier you said pesticide is p’soles, but he says it isn’t. Did you change your mind?
DY -“Earlier you said pesticide is p’soles, but he says it isn’t. Did you change your mind?”
No!!! I think he’s assuming that the reason for washing is because you don’t want to eat a not washed fruit. In such a case, with the case over here, it could be Mutter, ask a Shaila.
I’m assuming the reason people wash fruits is to get off pesticides. This would be Osser with holes in a basket.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=51974&st=&pgnum=93
deals specifically with pesticide.
Again, why should the basket make a difference? It’s not separating ochel from p’soles.
DY -“Again, why should the basket make a difference? It’s not separating ochel from p’soles”
Let the water be the Borrer. It’s still Osser. See S’A 319 #8 MB #30 & Biur Halacha there.
Asher, why not just “Women who wear…?” I think this has little to do with the husbands.
Let the water be the Borrer.
I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.
It’s still Osser. See S’A 319 #8 MB #30 & Biur Halacha there.
Why do you keep repeating the same mareh makom when you know I hold its not a raya, and the following s’if is the relevant one?
Let’s not equate talking during davening with using the internet. Refraining from using the internet altogether is not halachah. If anyone disagrees, then I guess they won’t be arguing against me here.
Talking during davening, on the other hand, has no excuse. Embarrassingly, the non-Orthodox movements are actually better about this on average.
Washing tomeetoes through the plastic on Shabbos seems to be assur by the mainstream opinion; I was talking to someone who actually asked our Rabbi about this. Sorry, DaasYochid, I really like you and most of your posts, but are you sure this particular argument is halachicly correct?
Newbee: I’ve been helping the other thread mostly, up until now. Now I guess I’m spreading the wealth.
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