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Bygirl, BJJ and Hadar may be the only seminary for American girls that have such a rule, but I would say that 95% of the Israeli seminaries, as well as almost all of the elementary schools have this dress code. I think Vizhnitz have a pink/burgundy uniform and very few schools let their daughters wear normal clothes.
Once again, as I’ve mentioned many times before, I’m grateful that outside of its Brooklyn branch, Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim deemphasizes white shirts. They feel it is important for a talmid to dress neatly, cleanly, conservatively, but growth comes from within, not from the shirt. And by the way, if you’re going to wear a white shirt, please make sure it’s clean! How many bochurim wear white shirts during the week that are starting to get a gray or yellowy tinge? Don’t tell me they wouldn’t look neater in a light blue!
Another peeve I have on this subject is men who wear the garb, black suit, white shirt, hat, and yet when you talk to them you realize that they’re weak on even basic halacha. But they believe they’re frum because of how they’re dressed. Isn’t that backwards?
Hi Wolf.
Very interesting! So, how DOES white make someone appear more “fummer”?
And, in your opinion, can, say, blue ever become a color to make someone appear more frummer?
The connotation attached to the aesthetics of these colors is a curious thing to me.
Very interesting! So, how DOES white make someone appear more “fummer”?
*I* don’t think it does, but it seems that the people in the yeshiva world do. Ask them.
And, in your opinion, can, say, blue ever become a color to make someone appear more frummer?
No, I don’t think so. I don’t think the color of your shirt makes a difference.
The Wolf
i would say that a white short IS more choshuv, and the goyishe world is the proof. would you wear a tux with a blue shirt? when was the last time you saw a president wearing a colored shirt in any kind of presidential setting? i can go on…
as for the question about whether a ben torah should wear a white shirt…i say lav davka. i went to chafetz chaim…i dont buy into the whole white shirt thing. i believe the rosh yeshiva;s criterion was that one looks elegantly conservative…or conservatively elegant…i dont think anyone really knows which 😀 and that can easily be achieved with any kind of color combination. and yes…i wear pink and lavender shirts 🙂
I heard the chafetz chaim wants to change their colored shirt policy to a white shirt only policy. Does anyone know if there is any truth do that?
Hi Wolf,
So if the Rabbi of your shul came in on Shabbos with a light blue and pink pattern Izod brand, button down shirt given to him as a gift, it is all the same to you?
In general, to you clothing has no effect? It’s just for utilitarian reasons?
If what you say is true, well, for many it is not like that.
Yet, I wonder what the reason is.
So if the Rabbi of your shul came in on Shabbos with a light blue and pink pattern Izod brand, button down shirt given to him as a gift, it is all the same to you?
I might ask him about him about it, because it’s unlike him, but I would not assume that he is any more or less frum because he changes his shirt color.
In general, to you clothing has no effect? It’s just for utilitarian reasons?
No, I agree that there are times and occasions when certain clothing is called for. But, again, that does not necessarily reflect on the religious feelings of the person wearing the clothes.
The Wolf
“would you wear a tux with a blue shirt”
LOTS of guys have done so through the decades. And peach, pink, grey, lilac, light beige, etc. as well. It might not be fashionable now, but it was, about thirty years ago.
“i would say that a white short IS more choshuv, and the goyishe world is the proof. “
In my experience, the goyishe world wears ALL types of colorful shorts – usually in the warmer weather, but I guess a pair of white ones would look pretty choshuv. 🙂
You know, I was skeptical at first, but after reading all the opinions on this thread, I am finally convinced. It is a chiyuv for a yeshiva guy to wear only colored shirts. If people in your yeshiva don’t-you should find a real yeshiva.
what popa said 😀
and yes its true that CC brooklyn is switching to white shirts…but that in no way reflects the hashkafa of the yeshiva…instead it is a glaring indictment of the prejudices and biases of the community.
nechomah- you are right- most schools don’t and I am very thankful I had a uniform because i could never decide what to wear even just on shabbos- but the girls I know who went from uniformed elementary school to not wearing one in high school in the beginning maybe had a problem- but after that they got used to picking stuff out or just throwing on whatever- and they all became sure of themselves and of what they are wearing then the rest of us- who more than a half a yr out of high school- and are less confident and much more self conscious on what they pick out and dress for everyone else and not themselves- so sometimes in girls cases when you are older it might actually be better not to have a uniform and just have a dress code- that way they can gain confidence in an appropriate and tznuis fashion- and they learn first hand what is good and not- maybe we wouldn’t have so many girls whose skirts are just a little to high when they sit- or maybe just a little less flashy- as for guys- I agree with the whole white shirt thing for yeshivah- but I think to judge whether or not someone is more yeshivish or not really doesn’t depend on the shirt- and people shouldn’t be so quick to judge- almost 7 yrs ago mir Yerushalem put out a pamphlet- on the cover was a picture of all the boys learning all in white shirts- if you look closely there is one boy in a blue shirt- if one would see it one would assume he just came to the yeshiva and doesn’t know much yet or that he is more modern etc.- I know that boy- and all of that would be 100% not true- he actually was one of the top bachurim there- he just ran out of clean white shirts- and its better that the shirt should be blue then not clean- and he had no idea they were taking a picture because he was busy learning!- so just saying white shirt or blue- be careful not to judge!
“but I think to judge whether or not someone is more yeshivish or not really doesn’t depend on the shirt-“
yeshivish is no indication of yahadus at all. yeshivish is a way you act, not a way you are.
I agree with Dr. King let us not judge each other based on the color of our shirts but by the content of our charachter.
Maybe they’re using Tide, and not Clorox.
I hope you’re having fun ctc! Just wondering, what color short are you wearing now?
He doesn’t wear “shorts”
Ouch.
“when was the last time you saw a president wearing a colored shirt in any kind of presidential setting?”
Often. Famous recent incidents include President Obama visiting the areas destroyed by storm Sandy, and President Bush giving his speech with the bullhorn after the World Trade Center terrorist attack. Both wore casual colored shirts.
“yeshivish is no indication of yahadus at all. yeshivish is a way you act, not a way you are.”
astute.
So if the Rabbi of your shul came in on Shabbos with a light blue and pink pattern Izod brand, button down shirt given to him as a gift, it is all the same to you?
Shabbos attire is different then what a bochur wears on a daily basis to his yeshiva.
Do blue shirts cost less than white shirts? Whether you agree or not, white shirts are standard attire in the yeshiva world. Those that wear blue shirts are making a statement of not conforming.
As they say, in Rome do as the Romans.
“in Rome do as the Romans”
Rabbi Akiva would have been a pagan had he subscribed to this philosophy.
Do blue shirts cost less than white shirts?
Yes, because it is easier to find sales.
apushatayid – I didn’t know it was against the Torah to wear a white shirt.
Popa – I didn’t know that. I’ve never bought a blue shirt. You do realize, that if everyone starting wearing blue shirts they wouldn’t go on sale either
But more often that not, it is against the torah to live by the rule when in rome, do as the romans do.
As a teen sibling likes to quote (in justification of whatever their friends are doing) “?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????”
I remember a period when white shirts were out of fashion.
Everyone was wearing colored and mostly striped shirts even on shabbos. it was even difficult to buy a white shirt.
Most younger yeshiva bochurim started following this style as well, while older yeshivalite stayed the course with white shirts.
This fad did not last very long.
Charlie,
The poster said “in a presidential setting”. The cases you are trying to bring as proof were not presidential settings.
What about someone who only wears white on shabbos. Does he have to wear it on a date? or a hat?
It is not proper to wear only blue shirts either. One should always look for the lowest priced shirts so as to be able to give more tzedaka, so if grey, yellow, orange, pink, green, or any other color costs less, that’s the right color.
it could have something to do with preventing bitul Torah, you dont have to spend extra time choosing what to wear so you could spend that extra time learning, or getting to Yeshiva earlier.
To prevent bitul Torah, a man should wear pants that are in neutral colors and go with anything. Socks should all be exactly the same.
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