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Considering that inner Boro Park is today virtually 100% frum, Baruch Hashem, I believe the time is ripe to follow our brethren in Yerushlayim Ir HaKodesh in closing Boro Park’s streets l’kovod Shabbos Kodesh. It will truly enhance Kedushas Shabbos.
Understandably, we first need to figure out the exact parameters of which streets to close. We wish to only include the virtually all-observantly Jewish blocks. But, except perhaps a very small number of blocks in the very outskirts of BP, I think we can safely say this will include the vast majority of the area. Effectively, this will result in an open space area from (probably) 12th Avenue to 20th Avenue, between 39th Streets and 60th Streets. If this slightly too large an area, adjustments can be made.
The time has come for us to lobby Councilman Greenfeld and Assemblyman Hikind to introduce legislation to this effect in the City Council and State Assembly, respectively. Please contact Councilman Greenfeld and Assemblyman Hikind as soon as possible to urge the passage of this during the current legislative calendar.
I disagree. Its good that the streets arent closed in boro park. It’s a strong reminder that were still in golus
Is this a joke? This is American. Regardless of how many Jews , frum Jews, live in a specific area that doe not matter. Even considering this is stepping WAY over the boundaries. Completely inappropriate to think that we have a right to close any streets likavod shabbos. I am frum would I not love it to live in a place that felt as holy on shabbos as my own home? Yes. When moshiach comes it will. Until then let’s be realistic and not expect unreasonable efforts on the part of society.
We really don’t need any more reminders that wer’e in Golus, Chas Vshalom! If you say something like that you are really steeped in it, by thinking that something like this is Geuladik!
MorahRach- This is America. Please use proper English in your posts.
Imagine if the streets were closed and you needed to call Hatzolah or there was a Fire on your block.
Now Hatzolah or Fire Department cant get to your location because the street is blocked
Bowwow it is because of disgusting people like you that I think I am done with ywn. I was writing from my phone, whilst grocery shopping and doing a million things. Forgive me. I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to try to hurt someone’s feelings by pointing out their poor grammar, spelling or whatever it is you were being nasty about. Good luck to your spouse.
MorahRach – Please don’t leave. I enjoy and appreciate your posts.
Avhaben: Why? Almost everyone there is Frum so there is no issue of Jews driving and what right do we have to stop the Goyim from driving through there? That would be G’zeilah. The reason they block them off from places like Me’ah Sh’arim is because most of the people there are Jews and they don’t want a Jew being Mechallel Shabbos in their neighborhood. Why and how can we stop Goyim from driving on Shabbos?
Morah: If you were really “Rach”, you’d be more easy on him…
Oh, I forgot. CHEER UP.
Sam: I would think the issue would be the same as in EY. There are lots of frei yidden in NY. And they could be passing through BP.
Ders: It’s very far from the Rov that it is in Eretz Yisrael.
Thanks mermaid. Still. It’s one thing to have heated discussions and disagreements but another when you purposefully make someone feel bad / embarrass them. I notice it a lot here. I really value so many of the things I read here, and I like the differing opinions but sometimes I get so turned off when people attack.
I think that it would be dangerous to have streets closed, what if someone needs an ambulance in the middle of the night? Precious minutes would be lost by moving barricades.
MorahRach- I’m sorry if you found this to be an attack. When posts are not written properly they are very often difficult to read or can be misunderstood. If you have something to post, write it when you are not rushed and can make sure that it makes sense.
Please forgive me.
How does Hatzalah get into Meah Shearim on Shabbos?
Sam: It makes no difference if it is most or not. One Jew being mechallel is one too many. (And if you taaina they will be mechallel anyway through another route, you could say the same in Yerushalayim.)
Bowwow- Come on! You could’ve understood the post whether it said America or American. This is a pretty frum forum. Don’t middos mean anything to you! Plus you didn’t even add to the conversation. All you did was put morahrach down.
I’m almost positive that this is already being done in select areas.
” If you have something to post, write it when you are not rushed and can make sure that it makes sense.”
beware of the coffee room police./
Ders: You have no right to block a public Goyish thoroughfare, even if it will stop a Jew from being Mechalel Shabbos. In Israel, where Rov are Jews, you do have a right to block the Derech Harabim in such a case.
OneOfMany: In which areas? BP?
How much good do barricades do, anyway?
Just this past Shabbos, here in Haifa, I saw a FedEx truck move a barricade so he could get through. Since he moved it, another vehicle also went through.
I would say the majority of posters here are parents, are working, are trying to raise a family etc. We don’t all sit here for hours on end perfecting our grammar. This is a blog. Not a Harvard entrance exam.
How is it in Kiryas Yoel and New Square? Do any (non-emergency) cars ever drive on their streets on Shabbos?
Anyone know?
You do not live in a Jewish country, ergo you have no rights to go around blocking streets for Shabbat. If you feel that strongly that you need blocked streets, make aliyah and go to someplace where the streets are blocked – Mea Shearim, Kiryat Sefer, Bnai Brak.
I think there should be a law across NYC that every woman, regardless of race or religion, should be required to wear long skirts, long sleeves, and stockings so as not to offend our sensitive CR brethren.
Exactly HOW will there be EXTRA kedushas Shabbos when streets are blocked?? In Eretz Yisroel, erlicheh sincere yidden do not want their children or themselves to witness other(not-religious) jews committing a blatant avairah of chilul shabbos by driving their vehicles around. But in Boro Park?? What is there to gain?
MCP: I agree with you (regardless of your seriousness.)
FYI there are some Rabbanim who are AGAINST closing the streets in Jerusalem.
The reason is these people are driving anyway, and if the streets are closed there will drive MORE causing more Chilul Shabbos
BaalHabooze: I forget which godol it was that cried during his first Shabbos in America due to the blatant chillul Shabbos he saw with Jews driving.
+1 Baal Habooze very well said, we don’t own this country and we don’t need to give the anti-semites another reason to hate us.
Do we really need to give the goyim another reason to hate us more than they already do? Next thing you know, you’ll be throwing stones at their cars.
Considering that inner Boro Park is today virtually 100% frum, Baruch Hashem, I believe the time is ripe to follow our brethren in Yerushlayim Ir HaKodesh in closing Boro Park’s streets l’kovod Shabbos Kodesh. It will truly enhance Kedushas Shabbos.
Let’s leave aside, for the moment, the fact that this idea will never actually fly. Instead, I’d like to focus on the request itself.
Av,
Why do feel that it is right to actually close the streets for Shabbos in the United States? Have you actually considered some of the practical applications?
1. As mentioned above, emergency vehicles would be unable to get through in a timely manner. Do you feel that the increase in response time (which could be the difference between life and death) is worth closing off the streets?
2. There are plenty of people who pass through Boro Park (via private or public transportation) who, being not Jewish, have no interest in (or obligation to enhance) kedushas Shabbos. Why should they be inconvenienced? Why should they have to sacrifice their extra time (which can be significant in the case of re-routing buses around Boro Park instead of through it)?
2a. Of course, the same applies to emergency vehicles that need to pass through Boro Park to get wherever they are going.
3. Despite your assertion that it is “virtually 100% frum,” the fact remains that there probably quite a few people who live in the neighborhood who are, in fact, not Jewish. Why should they be “trapped” (as in, unable to leave with their cars) on Shabbos when they have no obligation to kedushas Shabbos?
4. Lastly, consider people who live in other areas. There are parts of Midwood/Kensignton, for example, that have a very strong Pakistani population. Should they increase their numbers to become a strong majority (as Jews are in Boro Park), would you favor their requests to close off the streets for Fridays (or daily during Ramadan) if they claimed that it enhanced their appreciation of their holy days? What about Jews who live in areas that are otherwise nearly 100% Christian? Would you favor their being “trapped” in their towns on Sunday?
5. Lastly, there is the idea of political capital and spending it wisely. There are only so many things that we, as a community, can ask for from the government and the general populace. We therefore, need to assign priorities to the things we want and/or need. Is this a wise thing to be spending our political capital on when there are probably plenty of better issues with a larger benefit to the Orthodox Jewish community at large than this?
Please respond to each of these questions.
Thanks,
The Wolf
Not only is this notion ridiculous but so are the people who think this is a good idea. Is there not enough hatred of the jews already? Do you really think that trying to bring this plan to fruition would help anything? If your area is so frum, then you shouldn’t have a problem with people driving down your block. The fact that they do only goes to prove that your theory is wrong. In fact, one can argue that it would be discrimination against the non-jews who live in that area. Besides, what do you really hope to accomplish? Do you want to be able to walk down the middle of the street on shabbos instead of on the sidewalk? Do you simply not want to see cars pass down the street because it diminishes your “Kedushas Shabbos”? You have a very simple choice – Move to a place that already has this rule in effect.
I am so tired of people EXPECTING others to accommodate them. WAKE UP – you live in America, and as such you need to follow their rules, not try to force your rules on them
(end of rant)
The B11 would not be able to run through the neighborhood.
That would mean that possibly nurses would not be able to come help the elderly etc.. mail would have to be stopped on Shabbos..
Besides, a lot of the buildings have Russians..
Nice thought but doubt anything more than that!
Definitely a troll post.
No shaychus to Eretz Yisrael. There it’s supposedly a Jewish state so allowing cars to drive on Shabos is a blatant Chilul Hashem. BP may have 100% Jews but it’s Goyish ground, goyish jurisdiction.
Come on – it’s so obvious.
You cannot be responsible for someone else’s actions. If by closing the streets you hope to prevent a Jew from chas v shalom driving on shabbos, that is really not your job. This is not a Jewish country, we get to choose how we live out lives bH but do not get to dictate how others do.
We cannot close the streets. To do so would effectively end the Eruv war.
I vote for Status Quo
If streets are closed, it will lead to chilil shabbos and other aveiros: people will start shpatzrin with their wives and saying good shabbos to other couples; baby carriages will be pushed; kids will play in the street and forget what a shabbos is supposed to be; people will think you can carry as well; how are mail and other packages going to be delivered- your neighbors are going to be pretty angry with you, avhaben; the goyim will be upset and you need to consider their feelings.
Is it true that Boro Park is the largest Jewish neighborhood outside Eretz Yisroel?
I have a better idea!
The masses of frum Jews in Boro Park could all come home, to the very land that has been awaiting us for 2,000 years. The very land that in the last 64 years has been zoche to se millions of her children come home. The very land that we wept and prayed to be able to return to, but no longer have to b/c we are only a 9 hour plan ride away.
This idea to shut down the streets of Boro Park, while not practical and even dangerous to attempt in Galut shows how those frum Jews yearn to be in a place where they can close the streets on shabbat and that is only in Eretz Yisrael.
1. Incorrect. Emergency vehicles get through fine in EY where the roads are closed. It in fact probably assists them in getting through quicker.
Please explain to me how it is possible that an emergency vehicle can get through an obstructed street faster than an unobstructed street.
2. Its a small inconvenience affecting a small number of people.
No, it’s not. It affects anyone who takes a bus, taxi or bicycle through Boro Park and now must veer far out of their way. For a bus ride, that can easily add a half hour to the trip each way. That’s not a minor inconvenience.
And, furthermore, even if it *is* a minor inconvenience, so what? What gives you the right to inconvenience them with your religion — especially when, according to the Torah, they don’t have any obligation to avoid driving through Boro Park (or anywhere else) on Shabbos?
3. I don’t believe you are correct on this point about the number of non-frum residents. It is almost negligible. Take a stroll through inner BP.
It doesn’t matter if it’s even one. The streets are a public accommodation and belong to all members of the public.
4. If it were a virtually 100% Pakistani neighborhood, then yes, I’d have no objections.
I highly doubt that.
5. I disagree. It would be spent wisely on this initiative.
Why do you feel that this is so imperative that it outweighs other needs?
The Wolf
Chutz laraetz is not like E”Y and the idea has the potential for catastrophe. The fact that you even suggest it, reflects the sad fact that we really forget we are in Galus. We actually think we’re in it for the long haul and that is one reason why IMHO, (aside from sinas chinom) that we are still here.
Think of better ideas to promote achdus that doesn’t give the goyim any ideas like the ones they’ve had in the past.
Thank you!
ok so u sed it wud enhance ur kedushas shabbos syaing that yes there are cars which pass thru so obv though the ppl who live there may be 100% frum there r obv enuf ppl driving thru and closing it off wud be inconvienent for them and we are in gulus and know that we must respect our country and our exilers so closing the streets isn’t doing that
avhaben, does not fighting for closed streets go against the yeshiva world philosophy of never “angering the goyim”?
@Wolf- Agree with you. But you forgot this point:
6. Closing main BP streets will divert traffic to the surrounding streets and make traffic, noise and safety problems even worse.
1st things 1st:- Get a unanimously accepted Kosher Eiruv. If we cannot even have a universally accepted Eiruv, how are we ever going to have a unanimously accepted street closure arrangement.
Don’t run away from the issue by talking about ambulances etc. Even in Mattersdorf, everyone understands that ambulances are allowed there on Shabbos/Y.K. no questions asked, and I have seen them there on the Holy Shabbos, without anyone shouting nor stones being thrown.
I know a rav who, when he lived in Toronto, opposed wearing a tallit on the way to shul as he did not want people to think that Toronto was thir home.
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