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I have a hypothesis that getting cleaning help is predominately in the New York/New Jersey area whereas out of that area cleans their house themselves
Is that true?
Nope….I can assure you that many frum families in South Florida, LA, Boston Chicago, etc also have regular house cleaning assistance, especially when both parents are working outside the home. Its a function of both income levels and availability of affordable cleaning services which simply are not available in many smaller OOT locations.
Having lived in CT for over 67 years, I can say that most upper middle class people I have known have cleaning help.
My parents and grandparents had cleaning help in Florida
My Niece’s family had cleaning help in Illinois
My other niece has cleaning help in California.Is that because the New York metropolitan area is home to a disproportionate percent of high income families?
P.S. Make sure you don’t delegate bringing up your children to the Polish (or Spanish) cleaning lady.
in Mexico City, London, Panama and Zurich all have cleaning help, just a few of the none Nyc/NJ places that I have seen first hand
The large percentage of more affluent Jewish families in metro areas with readily available cleaning services use them for that purpose only. I don’t recall any of our friends/family members having “live-in” goyishe nannies helping to care for their kids. I’m sure it happens but I suspect not very prevalent outside of NY metro area.
gadolhadorah: do you have friends or relatives in other communities? if you do ask them what its like in their communities and you will fijd out it is not a NY thing.
ctlawyer: are you on fulltime? how are you doing? we have missed you!
CS: Can you translate your comment into English?
In families where two adults are working household help is a necessity if the couple has children. It’s not an exclusively frum practice.
Lowertutition: Yup…friends all over the country. As I indicated, most of our personal friends and colleagues in my firm in various parts of the country have cleaning help but few have live-in day care or nannies. I don’t disagree that many frum families with both parents working need help with younger kids but just something in my circle is not frequent. Its just a personal choice since most could easily afford it.
Anyone tried making kids clean and do other chores?! That could raise a next generation of self-cleaning Jews.
To ujm: You must be older than I previously thought, as you remember when there were Polish cleaning women.
@lowerourtuition
B”H surgeries went well. Have to limit screen time for next 60 days. Glad to be back
@huju
I remember Polish cleaning ladies as well. In fact the lady who cleans our house on Wednesday each week is Polish.
Since the breakup of the Soviet Union we are seeing Russian and Ukrainian cleaning ladies who were doctors in the old country.
The majority of cleaning ladies in our area are either Mexican or Brazilian.The Lakewood Scoop has a letter today from a woman complaining that cleaning ladies are now asking for $20 an hour. Respondents are all complaining that these folks are illegal and basically don’t deserve the $20 an hour requested. Labor can ask for the salary they deem appropriate. The potential employer has the right to say no. My local credit union offers to process payroll for one domestic employee (nanny/housekeeper) per household. Here in the west I pay $25 hr. My payroll for the handyman and cleaning person are all handled by my accountant.
CTL: Many Russian nuclear scientists who moved to New York became taxi drivers.
I never let a Polish cleaning lady clean my house after my Grandfather who spoke a fluent Polish walked into my parents house when i was a teen and heard the cleaning lady crusing Jews under her breath while washing out pots.
Amil: Congrats on using the politically correct “cleaning person”.
Has it ever been a man?
Amil: For the future, please keep in mind to change your usage to “handyperson”.
UJM: We actually do have a handLADY who has worked for us for several years and does quite a good job on small electric and plumbing stuff that would take me hours.
On a separate note, the Lakewood Scoop comments noted by AZ regarding undocumented cleaning people “don’t deserve” $20/hour is likely an aberration since there have been reports of intelligent life in Lakewood . People can ask for whatever compensation they want and potential customers are equally able to say yes/no. “Deserve” is a rather stupid term with respect to markets for goods and services. Something is “worth” what a willing buyer/seller agree on, no more or less.I see it everywhere in Quebec and Maryland but I don’t agree with it unless you have 10 kids and a huge house or a physical disability other wise clean your house it’s good for your wallets and your physical/spiritual growth
” Has it ever been a man?” FWIW my cleaning person is female as is my salaried handyman. (I call her a handyman simply because it is part of her business name.) As a woman living alone, hiring a male is out of the question for me. Feel free to call her a ‘handy person’ if that floats your boat.
@UJM
Has it ever been a man?
YES………………….
My mother had a cleaning man from 1972 to 1988, when she and my father moved to Florida full time. “Bob’ then cleaned my home until 1997, when he passed away from cancer.
BTW…..”Bob” was my Polish cleaning man.
Since his death, we have only had cleaning ladies, but I would not rule out a man if we needed to change personnel.Disclosure: Our cleaning person NEVER cared for or was alone with the children or grandchildren. We are talking cleaning service only and Mrs. CTL and/or I has always been at home at the time.
@NG76Bc3
Why is cleaning the house myself good for our wallets?
I’m an attorney who bills in excess of $500 per hour
Mrs. CTL (prior to illness and retirement) was a designer/builder/realtor who billed approx $200 per hour.
The cleaning Lady gets $40 per hour ($50 with taxes and insurance costs to me). That’s far cheaper than our time is worth.> these folks are illegal and basically don’t deserve the $20 an hour requested
you can’t have it both ways. Either you believe in dina d’malchusa and not hire illegals or you don’t, and then pay fair wages according to halakha. What next – threaten them with ICE and make them work for a $1?
fwiw, back when Russian Jews were coming in droves to US, I observed some “frum” families were hiring old Jewish ladies for $2/hour. I know that these families were not rich and the ladies had no other sources of income, other than government subsidies, but still …
re: handyman
the most annoying is reading medical research about pregnant people this and pregnant people that… this is more disrespect for the women than omitting their names in wedding invitations …
More than anything else I am glad to see CT Lawyer back in the swing of things in the YWCR. Baruch rofeh chloim and may your recovery continue and be complete.
Hopefully now we can get some more intelligent discussions going and boot the trolls that have recently been lurking in our sacred space.
> it unless you have 10 kids
CTL > Why is cleaning the house myself good for our wallets?Especially if you have kids, you should show them working ethics in person and then involve them. This would bring both physical and spiritual segula, as mentioned above.
As a yeshiva bocher, I was sitting at the back end of the table honoring a billionaire philanthropist, who was sitting at the other side with the Rosh Yeshiva. We were served by the philanthropist’s college-age son.
Did the philanthropists college age son clean toilets for his Mother? Scrub floors?
Amil > Scrub floors?
I did not ask him, but he was very good carrying plates around. I did not know he is not from the catering service until someone pointed him to me. I did not realize that an idea of having kids do chores is so controversial here.
Simply because the man could carry plates doesn’t mean he’s mastered domestic duties.
I’m not from NY or NJ and many if not most of my friends have cleaning help. I was just having a discussion about it with someone who was in shock that my family cleans our own rooms.
bored teen, to clarify – we expect our kids to clean their rooms and do other things also. This is not good chinuch to tell the kid to take care of his territory only, as if he is not part of the family.
To clarify further – does not mean that they actually do any of it! But at least, when they grow up – they’ll tell their kids to do chores also (I am paraphrasing a saying “a father who tells his son to learn [rather than learning himself] will raise a son who will tell his so to learn [rather than learning himself])
Amil, maybe I am not clear – the shtick was not that the guy was able to carry a plate, but that he was humbly serving last rows instead of sitting at the head of the table where his father was sitting.
AAQ, again that has nothing to do with his ability to domestic work.
@always
We are specifically talking about house cleaning, not all manual labor around the houseIf you have at all followed my posts over the years, you’ll have read that I mow my own lawn, remove my own snow, paint and do carpentry, as well as do almost all the cooking (with an office in the home it is easy, and I find cooking enjoyable). I taught my kids these skills and they all had chores.
Now we are senior citizens, so it’s not about setting an example for our children. Our children set examples for our grandchildren.
Mrs. CTL has been ill for more than 5 years, I don’t expect her to clean from a wheelchair or hospital bed.
I enjoy the sense of accomplishment, when I have painted a room or cooked a gourmet meal, I don’t get that feeling after cleaning a toilet or scrubbing floors.
The cleaning lady cleans the kitchen, but she does not clean keylim, that’s reserved for a family member
BTW>>>we do not have live in help or aides for Mrs. CTL even though we could easily afford it. That would be a waste of money at this time.
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