Classic Yeshivishe Haircut

apushatayid

“The line “uniform of hashems army” makes me barf”

The medrash says that one of the zchusim that Klal Yisroel had in leaving mitzrayim is that they dressed as Yidden not Mitzrim.

The medrash also says the the reason why Moshe wasnt zoche to be buried in EY is because when he appeared to the daughters of Yisro in Mindyan he appeared as an ish Mitzri to them. I.e. he dressed as a Mitzri. Im sure there’s more. On the topic. You can barf at Medrashim all you want…

WIY-

I..dont..even..understand…know…where to start!

HAIR ON ONES HEAD IS JEWISH. IT IS JEWISH TO WEAR HAIR ON ONES HEAD.

Argh!!

Can someone else step in here please?

Loca

I wasn’t referring specifically to hair but a general way of appearing and presenting oneself in my response to apashatayid.

WIY – I think what loca is trying to say is that you are completely missing the point of the argument. Nobody is denying the well known midrashim you referenced. Nobody here would say one should dress or grow their hair however they want. The point of contention is over the rediculous degree of specificity to which some Jewish communities have defined what is considered “Jewish enough,” and the overly judgmental and harsh manner in which those members of Klall Yisrael who do not exactly fit that mold are excluded from said communities; as if these members of Klall Yisrael were transgressing over serious violations.

There is nothing rediculous about the degree of specificity. The Gemorah in Sanhedrin says that if Jews wear a specific color shoelace (!!) we should not deviate from it.

Now that is specificity.

Curiosity

The Gemara is in Sanhedrin 74 a-b however the Gemara there doesn’t say exactly what KH says it does. It says that bishaas shmad a Jew may not change even the color of his shoe laces (if there’s an inherent reason why Jews wear that color be it for modesty…) even if they will kill him. Ayyin sham.

Today there is no “Jewish Clothing”

If you are chassidish a Streimel and a Becasher would be part of the clothing, If you are Ashkenzic Yeshivish a Black Hat would be part of the dress, if you are Sephardic whatever Rav Ovadiah Yosef wears (I dont think Sephardim wear black, they think its bad luck) I dont know what his hat is called

Zahavasdad

You brilliantly managed to contradict yourself. Bravo.

It seems that most groups of frum Jews have a dress code. Specifically the Chassidim and Yeshivish. The idea is not to blend with the non Jews. We attempt to look different to remind ourselves and them that we aren’t one people and we can’t mix and blend.

Thank you WIY, I assumed the gemara was being taken out of context and that’s why I asked for a source. I haven’t had the chance to look it up myself, but if what you are saying is true, then that’s actually an implication that during a non-shaas-hashmad one MAY in fact deviate from the customary dress of the Jewish tzibur; at least to the point of wearing different colored shoelaces. Like zahavasdad pointed out though, today there is no strictly Jewish dress, except perhaps if you are living in a Chassidish community. Most Jews buy their clothes in stores that sell to non-Jews as well. Regardless, the Gemara never identifies hairstyle to be considered dress anyway. Keep in mind, Shimshon hagibor my have had a chup…

Photo of Aryeh Deri and Eli Yishai wearing regular black hats

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=148454

Curiosity: You completely missed the point, either intentionally or unintentionally, of that gemora in Sanhedrin. The gemora clearly demonstrates that yidden have a unique yiddishe way of dress. And that unique yiddishe style of dress can go down to being as specific as a shoelace color. Now the gemora then goes on to say that during a shas shmad if the goyim threaten your life if you don’t stop wearing “the Jewish shoelace color” then you are obligated to be prepared to die rather than change from wearing the Jewish shoelace color. But that doesn’t change the gemora’s starting basis that even during normal times (with no shas shmad) there can be such a thing as a specific shoelace color that is “The Jewish” form of dress.

Oh, and great point you made associating a nazir with a chup.

I think the Tzad Hashaveh from this thread is that a Jew should definitely avoid dressing “fashionably” and should totally ignore what is the in style and should wear basic simple clothing that looks presentable. So I guess everyone wearing those gay looking tight pants have to go throw them out now…

GUYS STOP IT!!!!! UR KILLING ME!!!!!!

ha,welcome back brony.

What about Khaki pants and a normal shirt with a collar and 3 buttons near the neck

If a Yeshivish person would go into an Amish area and hang with the Amish, Other than the Musctache it might be hard to tell the 2 apart

Patri, I just looked up the Gemara. It says one should not be over a “mitzvah kallah” at a time of shmad. The Gemara then says a mitzvah kallah is even changing the color of the shoelace. If you look up the Tur Shulchan Aruch that is referenced you can find the Beis Yosef that quotes the Rif that says that it refers to the goyim at the time who used to wear red shoelaces, while Jews had black shoelaces. The Beis Yosef also quotes a Maharik that explains the Rif chose the color red specifically to teach us that this is only applicable when there is a “tzad Yahadus badavar” because Jews wouldn’t wear red “mitzad tzniyus” – a practice that still commonly exists today. It would thereby imply that the Rif wouldn’t have defined a “stam minhag be’alma” that has no “tzad Yahadus badavar” to be a “mitzvah kallah,” otherwise he wouldn’t have limited the case to the color red. It’s not the color of the shoelace specifically that’s significant, it’s having to wear the color red. That would imply that there is no inyan of even a mitzvah kallah by minhagim of dress that are not inherently a transgression over tzniyus or another aspect of Yahadus. I’m not a posek, but it seems to me that the type of Yarmulka someone has or the way they wear their hair is not even a mitzvah kallah where the minhag has no basis in objective Yahadus, and is rather just “the way most frum people do things.” I would even argue that since there is no one single minhag amongst klall Yisrael as to how to wear your hair, that it wouldn’t even qualify as a “stam minhag be’alma.” According to the Beis Yosef, there may indeed be an inyan of mitzvah kalla by tight pants because it’s a matter of tzniyus.

haha, obstacle illusion, great user name!

Thank you, FITT.

blackhatwannabe-

theres NOTHING wrong with looking normal and having a chup w hair in the front!!! its ways more normaler and its a mitzva to look respectable. i have two older brothers and one has a chup and one doesnt and their looks do nooot compare!! it helps for kiruv also i ur not bald… and kiruv is saving lifes (siritual ones!!)its pikuach nefesh kkkk???