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im sorry it has nothing to do with being mature
to wolf why is it a curse if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with me not getting a watch, how is it a curse now i see that it really does make a difference to you
my question is that why should the inlaws put up such a fight if it means so much to the choson. I dont understand. I understand if somone doesnt have the money but this is not the case here would u like to come to my chasuna
So they’re being petty. So what? Again, even if you find a way to force them to give you the watch, will that make you feel loved by them? Is a forced gift really a gift?
Accept the fact that you’re in-laws are petty and move on with your life.
im sorry it has nothing to do with being mature
If you think it’s a good thing to jeopardize a marriage over a watch, I do have to question your maturity.
The Wolf
to wolf why is it a curse if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with me not getting a watch, how is it a curse now i see that it really does make a difference to you
Because you’re wishing that my kids have in-laws who would withhold gifts for petty reasons. To me, that’s a curse. I’m sorry that that’s your reality, but I was not responsible for it, nor my kids.
I’m giving you the best advice for your situation. There’s no need to curse me for it when I’m only trying to help you.
The Wolf
can you get me a cheap watch
Leizor
You want a watch. Whether it’s a big deal or not, you’re not getting one. It’s up to you whether you want to start a fight about it. Like Wolf said, what’s more important? The girl or the watch? In my opinion you should focus on your kallah more than on superficial things.
can you get me a cheap watch
If it means that much to you, buy yourself a watch.
At this point, I’m done with you. I don’t believe your story anymore. If the important thing were about feeling loved and accepted by your in-laws (as you said), then how would my getting you a watch change things?
In this thread you have made up halachos, insulted the entire MO community by implying that they don’t “like” halachos and cursed my kids by hoping that they have in-laws like the ones you claim you are getting. I’ve given you the best advice that you can hope to receive in this situation. You’re either a fake or someone who is so hung up on petty material things that you are clearly not yet ready for marriage.
Either way, I’m done with you. Feel free to take my advice or leave it.
The Wolf
im not making it up thanks for your advice and i did not make up halochs look up the mekor that i gave you
Leizor: You should never ask for a present. Whether your in laws are in a position to give and don’t want to or they are in a tough financial situation, it is their decision and theirs alone. Jewelry does not make a marriage. Presents don’t make a marriage. Let’s be honest here for a second. Who do you think is buying the watch? Not your kallah. She has no money. (unless she has been working for years and putting money aside.) It is your future in laws that will. Think about it this way. You are marrying your kallah. That is the best present in the world. IY”H you both will be able to purchase presents for each other in the future. That will mean so much more. When a couple toils and works for the good of each other, their marriage will be successful and no present in the world in worth it.
Wolfish & other sincere CR adults~ sorry to say, but I think we’re being played in alot of the threads by young teens ://
look up the mekor that i gave you
I did and I responded to it. There is no such halacha there.
The Wolf
doodle thank you very much for your advice you told me in a very nice way unlike anyone else on this site. thank you
Wolfish & other sincere CR adults~ sorry to say, but I think we’re being played in alot of the threads by young teens ://
Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to as well.
Well, I’m off to cook dinner for the family. I’ll be back later.
The Wolf
im sorry but i am sincere i am sorry that you dont believe and i would never want to waste your time, thank you everone for your advice. we should only hear good news
I will tell you what happened with my son. His Kallah didn’t get him ANYTHING. The one thing her mother got him – I was insulted by. His friends went out & got him a watch so that he should be like everyone else. My son was not upset that his Kallah didn’t get him anything – or her parents (excuse me they bought him one talis, I got him the second). One must learn priorities. as Wolf said- treasure the gift that Hashem has sent you in the form of your Kallah. A watch could break & be gone next year but a true Aishes Chayil should last you til 120.
you told me in a very nice way unlike anyone else on this site.
Hey, I was nice to you… until you started accusing me of not liking halachos you made up, disparaging the entire MO community and cursing my children.
That sort of thing tends to put a damper on our relationship, don’t you think?
The Wolf
Leizor, I just read this thread, what is behind this issue? Do you know why they refuse to give gifts? Are you the first chosson in their family? Was this done before? What does your Kallah say about this? What is your relationship with the parents?
Whatever you feel you need to say, it should be said with Derech Eretz. To curse? Why? For a watch? Please!! It is so not nice.
wolf, i think leizer is playing with your head here.
leizer, if u are legit then i think u have to sort some things out in your head before u get married.
is your kallah important enough to u to marry her and know u wont be getting gifts from her family?
if the answer is ”yes” then proceed with the marriage.
if the answer is ”no” then you need to speak with her and both sets of parents.
for if u cannot live without receiving gifts from them now, imagine how u will feel as u go along in the years of marriage and other occassions arise.
think carefully and i hope u make the right decision.
To curse? Why? For a watch? Please!! It is so not nice.
Hey, perhaps I deserved it. Lord knows that I’m not perfect. Perhaps I need to be punished for not buying him a watch.
The Wolf
“He came to you in pane”
He was stuck in a window? Youch!
Leizor is a fraud an so is Moshe Rose… but we all knew that.
“an so is Moshe Rose”
How am I a fraud? Im just as real as you are. Just becuz you dont like what I say doesnt make me a fraud.
Sonas Matonas Yichye. If you can’t afford a watch, don’t get married, and you’re no prize catch either.
A guy should not expect anything and certainly not ask for a gift. I didn’t get any gifts and it was no big deal.
Obviously this was a Purim joke a bit early.
a guy’s obligation to marry is the same even if he is too poor to afford a watch. but a choson doesnt have to buy a watch in any event.
Leizor: I don’t think you are ready to get married.
Lemaysa, what does the choson HAVE to get for the kallah and what does the kallah HAVE to get for the choson?
Lemaysa, what does the choson HAVE to get for the kallah and what does the kallah HAVE to get for the choson?
We answered this for you earlier. You HAVE to get her a ring for the kiddushin. You HAVE to get her a kesubah.
Beyond that, it’s all optional (in the sense that your marriage is 100% valid if you don’t do it). There may be some customs that some communities have on the matter — but again, I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts that ANY rav will tell you to dispense with the traditional gifts if it’s going to cause bad feelings.
The Wolf
Wait – Sacrilege is a fraud?
Leizor, perhaps they are tired of the entitlement people feel nowadays. Perhaps they are waging war on the “must haves” given to a choson, starting with their daughter’s.
Sometimes, its prudent to be the bigger pesron. You also know not to expect anything from your in-laws with regards to gifts. V’zehu.
I just want to know. Will these people give the same answers if it were there children who we are talking about.
I didn’t get candlesticks from my in-laws as most people I know did. I didn’t make a fuss.
I just want to know. Will these people give the same answers if it were there children who we are talking about.
I answered your question above. And yes, it would be the *very same* answers I would give my own kids.
Other than the ring for kiddushin, no one is *required* to give anything. Period.
The Wolf
And for the record, I didn’t get a watch or a shas from my in-laws. Eeees bought me a watch from her own money, but even if she hadn’t, I *still* would have been the happiest guy on Earth.
That’s right Leizor — even if I never got a single gift from anyone for my wedding, I would have been perfectly happy. The important thing to me was Eeees — everything else after that is unimportant.
The Wolf
I know someone who got all his “chosson gifts” on the last day he was able to see his kallah (1 week before the chasunah). At that point he already assumed that he was not getting anything and his parents offered to by him a talis. turned out they weren’t stingy in-laws, just major procrastinators. (Also was a bit silly to get so many gifts all at once.) But my point is, he was perfectly OK when he thought he was getting nothing from them, because he knew he was getting all he really needed/wanted -his kallah! And besides, you don’t really know why someone isn’t buying you something unless they told you outright!
Leizor,
If you are feeling insecure that you aren’t wanted by your in-laws and that not giving you gifts is a symbol of that, then its a different story. In which case, being unwanted is the problem, not the gifts.
I strongly agree with Moshe Rose (I am shocked).
A Pocket Watch is a Minhag Yisroel, brought down in Ta’amei HaMinhagim, to represent the Shalsheles of Klal Yisroel (continuation of the Jewish people), which is what the young couple is acting on by getting married. Why anyone would want to change such a beautiful minhag is beyond me.
Besides for that, there is no Chiyuv to buy anything. It is “nice”, but so is not nagging your SIL.
A Pocket Watch is a Minhag Yisroel, brought down in Ta’amei HaMinhagim, to represent the Shalsheles of Klal Yisroel (continuation of the Jewish people), which is what the young couple is acting on by getting married. Why anyone would want to change such a beautiful minhag is beyond me.
Agreed… and based on what we are hearing from Leizor (and, admittedly, we’re only hearing one side) it sounds like his in-laws to be are being petty.
But, at the end of the day, he has to decide if escalating tensions is worth the watch. As I said above, I’d bet dollars to donuts that ANY rav would tell him that making Shalom with one’s in-laws to be (and certainly not distressing his kallah) is worth far more than the minhag.
The Wolf
But, at the end of the day, he has to decide if escalating tensions is worth the watch. As I said above, I’d bet dollars to donuts that ANY rav would tell him that making Shalom with one’s in-laws to be (and certainly not distressing his kallah) is worth far more than the minhag.
Where is that Obvious button?
Where is that Obvious button?
I know it’s obvious to you and just about every other person on Earth. I fear, however, it’s not so obvious to one of our posters who (ISTM) is waiting for someone to give him advice on how to bring his in-laws to be to a Din Torah over a watch.
The Wolf
“I fear, however, it’s not so obvious to one of our posters who (ISTM) is waiting for someone to give him advice on how to bring his in-laws to be to a Din Torah over a watch.”
If hes entitled to it becuz its a minhag then he shuld take them to a din torah.
Leizor, why keep asking questions if you refuse to answer those asked of you?
What are the future in-laws reasons for not getting you anything? Did you and your kallah discuss this before the engagement? Did they and your parents discuss this? Was this a surprise to you? What is their financial Matzav? Are you their first son-in-law?
my in laws didn’t get me leichter either,
when a few relatives realized they chipped in and sent me to choose a set.
personally I think the issue here is acceptance for some reason you are insecure about the entire engagement
I think the issue here is acceptance for some reason you are insecure about the entire engagement
He explicitly said so earlier on. And he somehow seems to think that if he brings his inlaws to a Din Torah and somehow manages to secure a verdict for a watch that that will magically make things better.
As stupid and moronic as I am, even I can see that that’s a silly idea.
The Wolf
Leizor, you are either happy with your Kallah or not. Nothing else matters. If you are looking for what else you can get then you have no clue what marriage is about and what you are doing. The point of getting married is to complete YOU. To find your “ezer knegdo”. To find your missing half”. It has nothing to do with what the mechutanim gift you with. The gift, the matanah is your future wife. If you don’t see that, then you are not worthy of her, and you are not ready by any means to get married.
Extra gifts are just cherries on top and are nice but meaningless and worthless if you don’t see the true value in the Kallah. AND if you do not see the true worth of your Kallah NOW, YOU will never honor her and respect her as you are required to, when she will be your wife. YOU my friend have a lot of thinking to do and you should sit down with your Rosh Yeshiva and figure this all out. YOU do not have your priorities in order. A wife is a matanah from Hashem and that is the ONLY matanah that YOU need and should be praying for.
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