Cholov Akum

actually, butter is the least of it. as far as i know, you can’t make butter from any milk other than a cow’s. there are people who are makpid on cholov yisroel, but do eat foods containing butter that’s cholov stam.

Any difference between Cholov Akum and Cholov Stam? (What is sometimes called “Cholov Stam” is made by an akum.)

If a camel’s milk is sold in the USA at any time, the bottles will have to bear that label. It cannot be sold as USDA certified milk, by law.

Dairy farms contain specially bred cows designed to be milk machines. camels have not been bred for milk production. As such, Camel’s milk would be very expensive, and not worth cutting cow’s milk with.

If organic Chalav Yisrael milk was readily available (and not much more expensive than its chalav stam counterpart), I would very much consider switching over.

SJS – why not go to the extra expense for the mitzvah of maintaining Cholov Yisroel? It would be a great zchus.

Be careful with organic; the definition is so loose that who knows what you are getting. There have been several investigations into what organic really means and none of them are too supportive of the organic food industry.

Yes, I know. They are working on reforms for organic and hopefully some will be instituted soon.

SJS – why not go to the extra expense for the mitzvah of maintaining Cholov Yisroel? It would be a great zchus.

Joseph, its not the extra expense – organic milk is the same (or more expensive) than chalav yisrael. However, the health benefits of organic milk outweigh chalav yisrael (organic milk has been shown to have better sources of vitamins, they keep cows w/antibiotics in their systems out of the herd for 1 year…there are many benefits to organic). So, for my son who just switched to milk, we are doing organic. Does that mean he will never have regular milk? No. But I prefer to give him organic as long as possible.

Organic milk also lasts much longer than convetional milk because of a different processing system that they use (higher heat, shorter duration). Milk can last 1 month!

Also, some chalav yisrael products are inferior to their chalav stam counterparts – I assume you have never tasted stoneyfield farm yogurt, but that yogurt tastes like food, rather than garbage like other yogurts (chalav yisrael or not). I cant stomach the stuff. Friendship and Breakstone cottage cheese are vastly superior to non name brand counterparts. And don’t get me started on chocolate or ice cream!

Seriously though, when I lived in Brooklyn we ate mostly chalav yisrael because it was so easily available and virtually the same price (expensive, as everything else is there). I can find chalav yisrael where I live, but its a little out of the way. Given the option for the same quality product, I generally choose chalav yisrael, but I am not married to it.

I don’t have trouble taking on more stringencies, but this is one that I will hold off on.

lesschumras:

Not to argue, (it is semantical), but Chalav Stam is a Kulah (that it’s not Chalov Akum), Chalov Yisroel is not a chumra.

I have an acquaintance who drinks CY and considers herself to be a CY Jew

oomis, what in the world is a “Cholov Yisroel Jew??” 😉

“oomis, what in the world is a “Cholov Yisroel Jew??” 😉

It means, Moish, that this person is under the impression that she can be considered a Jew who only uses cholov Yisroel, because the MILK she drinks is CY. But she eats other stuff that is baked or mixed with non-CY. It’s kind of like the person who makes a big deal out of not cutting her son’s hair until he has his upsherin, but trims his bangs, so it doesn’t get in his eyes, as sson as it gets too long. Once it’s been cut, it’s cut. If you eat Entenmanns cake, you do not keep CY, no matter HOW much CY milk you drink.

“oomis, it is a good and appropriate thing to encourage people not to use Kulahs, where unnecessary.”

UJM – It is also good not to tell people something is assur when there is a reliable kulah for it. Why do you think that people should not be encouraged to use kulahs? A kulah does not mean it’s only “a little muttar.” It means it is not assur, and there is an opinion from rabbonim that supports that. Life does not have to be about chumrahs. Kulahs are also valid, if a reliable rov issues them. I encourage people to ask their rov when they have a shailah, and to follow his p’sak. If the p’sak is l’kulah, it is not my business to second-guess the rov. C”S is not an unnecessary kulah. The milk is cheaper, tastes better, and lasts longer before spoiling. That is an important consideration, absent any reason to suspect that the C”S is tainted with tarfus or tumah.

I’m going to throw in my two cents even what I have to say is not news to anyone.

Reb Moshe z”l used three Teshuvos to make the point that “Company Milk” should not be considered “Cholov Stam”. The facts speak for themselves.

The Litvishe Velt never considered milk powder or cheese to require Cholov Yisrael. Thus, all baked goods made with powdered milk are still within Cholov Yisrael no matter what their source it. Of course, Lubavitch and Hungarians required even these to be Cholov Yisrael. Thus, if a Yeshiva Bochur eats a cake that is made with powdered milk or freeze-dried whey, he is still within the Cholov Yisrael definition.

Reb Moshe’s own wife ate food that was made with non-cholov Yisrael. If he were to feel that strongly about Cholov Yisrael, he might have told her not to eat these. And I was there, I saw them in the fridge.

Not eating Pas Paltar is a chumra. It was a chumra in the days of the Mishnah. I am often amazed when people consider the eating of pas paltar a kula. It’s fine to be machmir but you should know that you are keeping a chumra rather than consider someone else to be very mekil.

B”H I live in Brooklyn. Most of my family lives in Torah communities. It is easy for me to be makpid when it comes to chalav yisrael, pas palter, and chodosh (the only of the three that could be d’oraisa). However, somem of us must travel to places that are not Torah communities (and I am not talking about taking vacations) and must rely on lenient opinions, kulas, and heterim. Some people may be BTing in places were chalav yisrael is not availalbe or may not be the best choice because it is usually sour by the time you get it home. Some may rely on pas paltar because there is no frum bakery in town. Let us understand that chumras are beautiful, but there are times when making a chumra into a sine qua non results are not what we want.

Can someone explain to me why CY milk never reaches anywhere near the expiration printed whereas the Cholov Akum does? We have thrown out gallons of CY milk. it simply does not last. What are they doing wrong?

“powdered milk doesn’t need to be cholov Yisrael.”

some hold it does, some hold it doesnt.

oomis, lighten up a little 😉 i was only kidding – i know what you meant. it just sounded really funny the way you phrased it so i had to repeat it.

Hey, Moish, I KNEW that – this is the pity of typing a post rather than speaking to someone. You cannot see the (wink, wink) sarcasm behind the words. I probably should have added a 😛 or @@ or something. You’re too smart not to understand what I said, so don’t think for one second that I don’t know that! I couldn’t think of another way to say “a Jew who only uses Cholov Yisroel.” CY Jew sounded pretty good to me.

Go know….

cholov stam? me?? no way!

and what’s wrong with my kup??

😉

To be clear… just because it says something in a teshuvah from Rav Moshe does not always mean that was the final word. Rav Moshe felt that due to the gov. supervision there was no problem whatsoever with standard American milk. The reason that the teshuvos state the facts the way they do is because Rav Moshe did not want to eradicate the idea of Cholov Yisroel in America. It is for that reason that he answer the shayla of a school using cholov stam the way he did.

As far as why cholov yisroel spoils faster the answer is simple. The cholov yisroel dairy’s are much more cost conscious that the major cholov stam dairy’s. Because of this they tend to have older trucks and less efficient refrigeration as well as more delivery’s by the same truck in one day. This means that your milk is sitting in a non ideal truck for longer and is sometimes (especially problematic in the summer) sitting outside for some time before the store opens.

notpashut, unfortunately, that happens nowadays too sometimes.

I think Rav Moshe approves of timers when used for electric lights but not for other purposes.

Also, the “Yisroel” in “Chalav Yisroel” is a camera focused on the cow(s)while the Yid sits at home watching the milking. So why the exorbitant prices?

Personally, I don’t think I can ever become chalav yisrael. Too hard.

BS”D

Syrian, you get used to it and you end up not missing whatever you used to eat. Ice cream was the hardest for me to give up. I used to make myself fleishig all day so I would not be tempted to eat Haagen-Dasz when I switched to CY. Now I don’t care to eat dairy ice cream anymore; the only time I do is Shavuos.

Unless something has changed, there is excellent CY cheese (mozzarella, string cheeze etc) under the JSOR. I used to go to the Syrian shops in Brooklyn just for that – it is hand made and natural.

I learn something new every day. I had no idea powdered milk does not have to be CY.

Thank you for the information.

Ok I guess my post wasn’t approved but joseph: don’t start with me.

Itzik: nope its too hard. The milk and cheeses aren’t the problem, its the snacks cookies chocolates ect

BS”D

Syrian, the CY chocolate out there is far better than the CS (and between where you are and Lakewood you can get it on sale for the same price at times, especially now around Purim). The CY is real Swiss chocolate; the CS is full of all kinds of chemicals. Some of the rest of the stuff you mention, if you mean well known brands of single serving cakes and baked snacks, is best avoided for health reasons whether it is CY or CS.

And its deff not the price that matters to me its the taste