- This topic has 12 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
….in Berlin (there are already 25.000 of them) many of them are living on social benefits…even if they are young and work is plentiful in Germany. I see Double Standards aka Hypocrisy.
You’re labeling here. Remember, each person is not every other person in the category.
1. In most countries, the people who complain about such and such group being on welfare, are usually motivated by bigotry towards the group. Racism and prejudice is the issue, and most bigots are hypocrites (as well know very well).
2. A serious problem develops in society’s with a liberal “welfare” state in that many individuals are content to live off their “entitlements”. This is becoming a very serious problem in Europe.
3. If you defined “employment” the way it is done in America, there would be almost no unemployment among Israeli hareidim. In the US if someone is part of a university community, and is receiving more than merely a waiver of tuition plus room and board, the person is considered to be an employee. By this standards, most members of kollels, even if they have no teaching or administrative responsibilities, would be considered to be employed.
Many people in universities have at least part time jobs that pay real money
Most people (not all) in universites are single people without any children and therefore alot cheaper to maintain
zahavasdad: Actually the teaching and administrative staff in both American and Israeli universities are well paid (at least compared to the teaching and administrative staff in yeshivos). Of course, zionist society considers the Bnei Yeshiva to be unemployed, yet if you compare them to someone studying Talmud or Bible in a non-frum institution, the work is very similar.
mild edit
You do need to worry about health care. They give you only 65 years.
Yeah, as if. Everyone knows that the doctors, not having any reason not to, just pretend they’re treating their patients. I did the math. Nothing is ever free.
I hate taxes.
First, decide if you’re talking about chilonim in Israel or non-orthodox Jews in Western Europe. How non-Israeli Jews feel about Israeli Chareidi Jews is irrelevant (unless you care about achdus) because they don’t vote in Israeli elections.
Second, chilonim, and dati leumi, and working yeshivish and chassidishe Jews complain about non-working chareidim for many different reasons. Some of it might be pure bigotry, like Republicans complaining about African Americans on welfare in the US, forgetting that most welfare recipients are White.
Most of it is out of frustration that the non-working chareidim are gaming the system. Anyone that considers him/herself an orthodox Jew learns Torah. Some may learn 8 hours a day, some 3, some an hour a week, some 10 minutes a week. But we all learn. We make time in our lives, as instructed by Chazal, to work and learn Torah. I won’t quote, but Pirkei Avos and the Rambam have very harsh words for Jews who choose not work and live off the donations of others.
Also, let’s not confuse secular with atheist. I believe shul attendance on Yom Kippur in Israel is somewhere nears 80-90%. I read a statistic two years ago. So while chilonim might not follow all of halacha, they recognize Hashem, the Torah, and the importance of religion. Before the Gaza military operation a few years back, one organization shipped in tzitzits for the soldiers. They ran out in minutes. Who took them and put them on before going into battle? The chilonim! The orthodox obviously already had tzitzit.
Many chilonim recognize that there is intrinsic value in learning Torah. If we treated kollel like a university and the students eventually came out to become teachers, dayanim, shul rabbis and kashrut examiners, no one would have a problem with the system or government support. These are professions. Professions where one can continue to learn 8 hours a day. Even if some students spent their lives doing nothing but learning because they were geniuses of their generation, I don’t think the chilonim would say a word. And chilonim do recognize that there is a Heavenly benefit for society when we learn Torah. Maybe not on the same level as us, but they get the concept.
Akuperman is wrong. University students in the US are not “unemployed” because they are considered workers not in the work force. They do not collect unemployment benefits. A few get government grants to study for a degree, most take private student loans. But they have a goal! To get a degree and get a better job! That’s good for the economy. The unemployment rate in the US for college graduates is under 4%!
Chilonim (and dati leumi and working yeshivish) don’t see a goal, economic or otherwise, for sitting in yeshiva on the government dole. If private parties want to support them, yasher koach! I donate to yeshivas also.
Let’s not mix concepts in an intellectually dishonest way to support and unsustainable system.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.