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Instead of being booted out.
What a lost chance for the RCA to make a kiddush Hashem!
Is a lost chance for kiddush Hashem a chillul Hashem?
Not in this case. He left because they don’t recognize his maharabbis, so I think they’re okay on this.
!
Agreed with popa. And the RCA’s chillul Hashem was an ongoing one for the past 15 years that they didn’t boot him out.
Sure they should have gotten rid of him a long time ago, but his leaving now isn’t the chillul Hashem.
At least this way, he’s less of a martyr. (If I would be him, I would have resigned over their anti toeivah statement. Would have gotten more attention, which is all he really wants anyhow. It’s a good thing I’m not him.)
Of note is that Andrew Weiss says that he let his membership lapse. Similar to his fealty to Torah and its Mesorah.
Nonetheless, his resignation is a great Kiddush Hashem.
Perhaps this means that they have severed their last remaining thread of attachment to Orthodoxy and will finally drop the word Orthodox from their movement’s name. Maybe they will just call themselves empty Jewery.
It will make things easier, since their marriages will not be considered marriages and will thus lessen the number of mamzerim he’s been creating and the geirus will clearly be seen to be the sham it is.
I’m with DY on this one. No martyr dramatics is best.
I used to have some respect for Wiess – even though he’s waaaay left, until the letter that he had published in the NY Times saying Lashon Hara about the Israeli Rabbinate.
There was no tachlis in that. Why does John American in Des Moines Iowa need to read about that? Clearly, Weiss is all about attention.
Who is Andrew Weiss?
Andrew Weiss is how Avi Weiss calls himself in the legal documents of his extortion agency ironically called Uri Ltzedek.
Apparently that is his “Legal” name.
The RCA took a good approach to Weiss. Instead of giving him a spotlight by kicking him out, they just marginalized him. They don’t accept his students as members. So once Weiss was out of the way (he’s already in his 70s), his group would be done with. Kicking him out would probably cause a lawsuit, with a lot of issues coming onto the public stage.
popa, in the past you’ve shown yourself all too eager to bash the RCA. What is your feeling about another rabbinic body, which has a prominent lo tzeis dina on it?
The fact that an apikorus as him was in, and was allowed to remain in until he chose to leave, speaks much about the RCA.
He’s still listed on the website.
Andrew Weiss is apparently their accountant as his address is listed as 25 Broadway on tax papers. There is also a Rabbi Ari Weiss who from his picture is obviously not him. Weiss is not an uncommon name.
Avi K.,
If that’s true, it would a further indication of their hypocrisy, because Andrew Weiss is listed as a Board member and as having loaned money to the organization. As such he would not be independent under state law and professional standards, yet according to you, they used him for the review of their financials. This is a gross violation of requirements under state law and professional standards. One of the biggest violations and specifically these Codie’s as part of professional ethics.
I believe the right thing for you to do would be to report them to the NYS AG and NYS SED. (because that is what they do with just rumors). You should also call a press conference with a bunch of clergy and put articles in the NYT and the “Forverts”.
What would be different from what they do is presumably your actions would be based on fact.
But you are wrong because a 990 does not give the home address of board members.
Joseph: Avi Weiss is a lot of things, but Pashtus is an Apikores is not one of them.
Nisht, I wrote “apparently their accountant”. I did not write that he is their outside auditor. He might be (or have been) their comptroller or whatever the title is. In any case, apparently he is Rabbi Ari Weiss not Rabbi Avi Weiss. Such inattention to details! Tsk. Tsk.
K,
Actually you are wrong. The information that I had comes from the information on the AG website. It’s not the other charlatan Ari Weiss.
Further, they have never had an audit, which is hypocritical. Nor do they report paying someone as internal accountant. There are payments for an outside accountant. And it is not only an Auditir that must be independent. There is no question that their ethics are severely lacking.
Your problem is that you do not know how to read the details that are there.
But neither does the writer for the Firwards who bills himself as an expert on 990s. Anyone who is even slightly knowledgeable sees from his comments that he is grossly incompetent. But for that paper, it is a requirement to be grossly incompetent.
Nisht, the AG’s website does list HIR’s address as ULT’s but apparently they are now at 25 B’way. If you check their website you will se that Rabbi Ari Weiss is listed as former Executive Director and Rabbi Avi Weiss is only listed as a supporter (in addition to others whom you would no doubt deem charlatans but then they might think that of you).
What a lost chance for the RCA popa_bar_abba:- You are so correct, because every member of RCA, that is more financial income for RCA, of several hundred dollars per member per year of membership.
I take somewhat of an issue with the premise of this thread. The fact that the RCA tolerated Mr. Weiss’s antics for so many years says more about the RCA than it does about Weiss. In my mind, the RCA will go down in history as the organization that brazenly and idiotically bashed HaGaon HaGadol Rav Ovadya Yosef Ztz”l (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/about-the-rca-i-do-shudder) while tolerating, and hence legitimizing, Weiss and his nascent breakaway movement.
But hey, lets at least be glad that at this point Weiss no longer has whatever legitimization RCA membership conferred upon him, and that the RCA doesn’t have the legitimization of being able to say that they washed their hands clean of Weiss and his perverse denomination of so-called Judaism on their own.
An important caveat: All of my complaints and criticism voiced above are directed primarily at those running the RCA. The RCA does have Talmedei Chachomim amongst its members and supporters whom I do respect. (Despite the fact that those said Talmedei Chachomim should have denounced the appalling things the RCA leadership said about R’ Ovadiya Yosef and the antics of Weiss, and did not.)
mw13: Many RCA members DID denounce the statement about R’ Ovadia. You can see the post I wrote at the time here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/about-the-rca-i-do-shudder/page/4#post-472524
As for Weiss, there actually were many meetings, as well as a special committee, set up to handle the issue. They determined that if they kicked him out, it would likely cause a lawsuit and bring a lot of publicity to the issue. They wanted to avoid that. They don’t allow his students into the RCA, so the thought was that the issue would resolve itself (as it did when Weiss didn’t renew his membership.) The RCA didn’t tolerate his antics – they release many statements opposing things he did. Why do you ignore those statements?
DaMoshe:
An angry internal memo, while definitely a good first step, is not quite the denunciation I would have expected. If an organization that one belongs to says something so ridiculous, I think it’s only natural for the members who disagree to state publicly “This statement does not in any way reflect our opinion”.
The RCA didn’t tolerate his antics – they release many statements opposing things he did. Why do you ignore those statements?
I never saw those statements. What did they say?
They issued numerous statements that they reject the ordination of women. The very fact that they don’t accept YCT “semicha” as legitimate is also very telling of what their opinion is regarding him.
Whatever my personal feelings may be about some of the “out there” things Avi Weiss has done or tried to do, this topic is engendering a LOT of L”H, and somehow, especially after Tisha B’Av, this is especially inappropriate IMO Can we drop this????
The Chofetz Chaim writes that it is a mitzvah to embarrass an apikorus. Clearly one is able to, and must, judge who is an apikorus.
???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ?’ – ????: “???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????”.
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Joseph: As I have said before (and you choose to ignore), Avi Weiss is a lot of things, but an Apikores isn’t one of them. Why are you so cavalier in playing with your Olam Haba?
R’ Willig wrote a great article about YCT and their ilk. Mods, do you allow links to TorahWeb? If yes, here’s the link: http://www.torahweb.org/torah/2015/parsha/rwil_ekev.html
If not, the article is called Trampled Laws, by R’ Willig. I urge you to look it up, it’s a great read!
oomis:
this topic is engendering a LOT of L”H, and somehow, especially after Tisha B’Av, this is especially inappropriate IMO
I remember once reading a letter to the editor of The Jewish Observer complaining about the magazine’s negative coverage of the positions of the Conservative movement. The letter similarly asked, “isn’t this lashon hara?” Although I don’t remember the exact wording of the response, the gist of it was that if there is a deviant movement seeking to undermine the observance of Torah and Mitzvos, it is not only permissible to speak up against it, it is obligatory. (As Edward Burke famously said, “In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing.”) And it is certainly li’toeles.
This applies even if Weiss and his cronies are indeed not apkorsim, which is its own issue. See the next part of this comment.
Sam2:
From R’ Willig’s article linked to above (thanks, DaMoshe):
“Rav Moshe continued to say that no battle, even one supported by the entire world, can succeed in changing the Torah, and women who fight to change the Torah’s eternal and immutable laws are heretics. If a woman wears talis or tefillin as a complaint against Hashem and His Torah it is prohibited as heresy since she thinks that it is possible to change Torah law… The movement to which Rav Moshe refers, now known as feminism or egalitarianism, continues to infiltrate Orthodox Judaism. The recent ordination of women is but one example. Unfortunately this practice is viewed by at least one of its proponents as part of an attempt to change Torah laws and ideas (see Crosscurrents July 29, 2015), precisely the heresy that Rav Moshe warned against.”
For a more in-depth look at apikorsos in Open-Orthodox theology, I suggest reading an excellent article titled “Open Orthodoxy: Outright Heresy and the Orthodox Rebirth of the Conservative Movement” by Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer.
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