Childfree Zones on Airplanes

Do they exist?

CTL – I hear your point, but I think that:

1. They should call them adult-only flights as you did, so that no discrimination against children is implied.

2. They should make sure that the vast majority of flights are not child-free. Or at least they should make sure that there are enough regular flights available for those that are travelling with children.

3. It should only be babies and very young children who are not allowed on these flights.

lilmod

I’m not calling for adult only flights, just quiet work sections on the planes. In the late 70s and early 80s I was commuting NY-Paris every other week while working for a major multinational corp. I regularly flew TWA (OBM) who used Boeing 747s on the route. The upper deck was First Class and for work and/or sleep. They did not show a movie and did not book any chlidren in that area. It was not a published rule, but done by considerate corporate planners. When a company such as the one I worked for booked 6 First Class tickets 26 Sunday Nights of the year on the same flight it’s amazing what the airlines would do to accommodate us.

When I was young, I remember some air trips where the airline provided small boxes of crayons and coloring books full of pictures featuring the airline. It was wins all around. I was kept entertained, neighboring passengers enjoyed the quiet, and to this day I have positive feelings towards that particular airline’s brand. I don’t know if any airline does that anymore.

Parents must prepare for air trips – have quiet entertainment and snacks ready and easily accessible even when the seatbelt light is on. If possible, a hungry and tired infant is a good thing at the beginning of a flight, because the feeding helps with the cabin pressure changes, and in-flight napping is more likely.

I understand the desire for “adult passenger only” sections on airplanes. With the squished seating now common in coach, people are in closer quarters than is comfortable, and some people need to work or rest during the flight. Given the recent trend among airlines to nickel and dime passengers for the last scraps of human decency left in the airplane’s cabin, maybe passengers can be offered an adult-only section fee.

Do you have to pay extra to sit in a child-free zone?

Do you have to pay extra to not sit in a child-free zone?

If you’re sitting in a zone that’s not child-free do you have to adopt a child for the duration of the flight?

I still don’t get how this works…

lesschumras,

Here’s a problem. Let’s say the children free zone is row 10 to 20. If your sitting in row 20, you’ll still hear a screaming child in row 21

$15 fee to guarantee that your row is adult only and put that pay bracket on the border rows. $30 fee to guarantee that your row and the rows in front of and behind you are adult only. Put that pay bracket in the rows between the border rows.

C’mon, think like an airline exec! 🙂

Aren’t there usually sections on the plane with bathrooms in between? So as long as there are no children on your section, it shouldn’t be such a big deal.

Also, maybe the back and/or front rows can be reserved for adults who did not request to be in the adult-free zone.

LU,

Thank you for the explanation.

As far as I can see, the only downside to this would be that there are fewer seats available for people with children. As it is, a vast majority of people who fly don’t fly with small children, so it shouldn’t be a big deal to just consolidate those who do. Doesn’t seem like a big deal. Am I missing something?

For the while, yeah. Most exhilarating. So much better than those clumsy jets. You’re in charge, you’re doing the thing instead of hydraulics and machinery, the feel is so much more real!!! Try it!

Meno – “As it is, a vast majority of people who fly don’t fly with small children, so it shouldn’t be a big deal to just consolidate those who do.”

I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying that it shouldn’t be necessary to have an adult-only section since they can just consolidate those who are flying without kids? If that is what you are saying, that is exactly what the point of adult-only sections is – to consolidate those who are flying without kids. But they are only going to do it if the people ask. Why should they do it unless they are specifically asked to do so (and probably paid as well)?

Or when you wrote, “it shouldn’t be a big deal to consolidate those who do” are you talking about the adult-only sections and saying that you don’t think it’s a big deal and you don’t understand why we are having a discussion about it?

If that’s your point, I don’t think that anyone here thought it’s a big deal. Joseph thought it’s discriminating to children, so others explained why they don’t think so. And then posters were just writing about how and where it’s done.

And then LC brought up one practical problem, and CTL and others gave solutions to that problem.

The only thing that’s “a big deal” about it is that it seems to be a newish concept and one that most airlines haven’t thought about doing until recently. I guess it just never occurred to them.

It’s funny because just last Shabbos I was at someone’s house and someone was talking about kids on planes and I asked if there is such a concept as a child-free section, but I had never actually heard of such a thing before, and then, punkt 2 days later, someone starts a thread about it..

I wonder why no one ever thought about it before. Maybe because it sounds discriminatory. Or maybe because it’s only really necessary on international flights, and the seating arrangements on those can be so complicated as it is.

I remember one El Al flight I was on. I was in a row with 3 seats, the middle seat was empty, and there was an 18 year old boy on his way to Yeshiva in the other seat. A Frum man came over and asked him if he could switch seats. It had something to do with the fact that he was traveling with his little kid but hadn’t been able to reserve 2 seats next to each other, so he figured that he would wait until he got into the plane and try to find a way to rearrange seats.

The boy said “no”, but felt uncomfortable about it, and after the man left, he explained to me that he had already changed seats once even though it meant giving up a window seat (or maybe it was an aisle seat?). So I was like “but what are they going to do?” And he said, “don’t worry; the plane can’t take off until everyone has a seat.”

End of story – the plane took off about an hour late. There were a ton of kids on the flight, and it seems like there were many people in the same situation.

Another time, when I was flying between EY and the US, there was an untzniusly dressed lady sitting nearby, and I saw that the Frum man walking down the aisle who was supposed to sit next to her didn’t look so comfortable, so I offered to switch seats. This also entailed my asking the girl who had been sitting next to me to switch seats with her father.

The point is that when you have all these other seating complications to deal with, I could see why adding in another factor could get really complicated.

LB -“Maybe it’s also important for mothers whose babies are still nursing.”

How does it help them if there is an adult-only zone? The only thing that would help them is a women’s only zone. Personally, I would like that.

“Still if they have an adult section then the children’s section also ought to be accommodating with space for changing diapers and etc.

Though it’s also expecting parents to get along with each other. And their children to handle sitting next to each other.”

There wouldn’t be a child-only zone. There would be two sections of the plane:

1. For those adults who specifically request to be in an adult-only zone. Any adult travelling with a child can not sit here.

2. For everyone else on the plane. This includes children, adults travelling with children, and adults who did not specifically request to be in an adult-only zone. This would include most of the people of the plane, especially since the adult-only zone probably costs more.

So I don’t see what the problem is. There are probably only a few people who specifically request and pay for the adult -only zone.

(Oh, was that what you meant, Meno? You were responding to the OP? The conversation at that point had kind of branched out, so I forgot about her question.).

I know that when you reserve a ticket, you can request to sit next to another female (or male, as the case may be), so maybe you can also request to be placed next to adults. Has anyone ever tried that?

LB: “2) Isn’t it? Wasn’t it? Isn’t it?”

I think Meno’s point is that it’s not technically assur for men and women to sit in the same section of the bus.

However, there are halachic problems that can arise if you don’t have separate seating. For one thing, there are women who don’t dress tzniusly. And for another, if you are a girl, you don’t want a strange man sitting next to you on a bus, v’hamaivin yavin. And it’s not always so easy to just stand up when someone does sit next to you.

oh, I thought you were being overly-liberal since it doesn’t technically say anywhere that women and men have to sit on different parts of the bus.

I’m glad to hear you weren’t.

Personally, I wouldn’t have phrased it this way: “putting women in the back of the bus”. I would have said something like “having separate sections on the bus for men and women”.

Of course, I know what you mean,LB, but others reading this who are not familiar with our society could easily misinterpret.

That’s reasonable if you really felt those things were important to you. With all the people on the plane, they should be able to find someone willing to switch.