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Just a question, and I don’t expect the fanatics here to like it.
Was Rav Shteinman (Chas V’Shalom) Danned to be Chayiv Skilah by the Hamon Am who holds of Rav Aurbach, based on the P’sak of Rav Chaim that those who do not follow the Gedolim are Chayiv Skilah?
Perhaps Rav Shteinman’s shittos to support Nachal Charaidi and not to actively protest the budget cuts have something to do with it as well?
I don’t buy the “He was not normal” argument.
Just a question.
The mental case who r’l hit Rav Shteinman didn’t do it out of anything other than his own derangement.
Everyone holds both Rav Auerbach and Rav Shteinman are both Gedolim and eilu v’eilu applies to the very few things they disagree about.
Rav Shteinman doesn’t support the nachal chareidi. In fact he told a bochor who wanted to leave the yeshiva since he wasn’t really learning, that it is better to run away to India (where obviously he won’t even be in yeshiva) than to join. See: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=160906
GAW, 1) Rav Chaim wrote that?!?
2) As far as you go, what would Yoshke hold?
I’m blessed to be TOTALLY in the dark regarding Israeli Politics. This party, that party. Let’s all party together. ??? ?? ???? ????. I don’t think mixing in to those politics is one of the ???? ?????? ????.
That being said, I don’t think it’s a good idea to hash on this, it’s only going to lead to more Bizayon Talmid Chacham r”l, to Lashon Hara and a host of other aveiros.
Was Rav Shteinman (Chas V’Shalom) Danned to be Chayiv Skilah by the Hamon Am who holds of Rav Aurbach, based on the P’sak of Rav Chaim that those who do not follow the Gedolim are Chayiv Skilah?
Of course not. Which bais din tried him?
The Wolf
A person who strikes a true tzadik is playing with fire.
Was Palin responsible for the Gifford shooting?
GAW,
You have not responded to mdd, because he is right, R Chaim did not say what you have ascribed to him.
Are you accusing Maran Harav Hagoan R’ Aron Leib, Shlita of being mevazeh R Shmuel Auerbach or any other Talmud chochom? I think that R Chaim’s words were then directed to someone just like you.
we dont know the cheshbonos. he wasnt accusing just wondering. the deranged individual was the messenger we cant blame him. the outcome was the rav shteinman was hit- we can ask y he deserved it but well never know….
Even if R’ Chaim said such a thing, it would be meant against people who yell in public at and strike Gedolim — as a horoas sha’ah.
Even if R’ Chaim said such a thing, it would be meant against people who yell in public at and strike Gedolim — as a horoas sha’ah.
Do a gadol have the right to actually execute people without proper adjudication? Even on a hora’as sha’ah basis? I don’t think so.
The Wolf
GAW,
“All I’m saying is that people who want to see it that way could have read Rav Chaim’s statement as justification for an attack.”
So far it seem that the only implying that is you.
A simple score card:
1)You twisted R’ Chaim’s words. At least twice in one sentence, totally changing the meaning.
2) You implied that R’ AL Steinman was mevazeh a Talmud Chochom.
I guess you are “one who wants to see it that way”
Par for the course.
I am sure you are a fantastic, well adjusted individual.
Do a gadol have the right to actually execute people without proper adjudication? Even on a hora’as sha’ah basis? I don’t think so.
The Wolf
Yes. Ayin Shimon Ben Shetach.
You mean the very same Shimon ben Shetach who expressed great frustration at his *inability* to execute a killer whom he knew to be guilty?
The Wolf
WM, I think he was referring to the mass execution of the witches of Ashkelon.
Is there any rational person who doesn’t believe that level of political discourse in Israel is over the top in terms of personal attacks and slander? Even the the U.S., which has a long history of vituperative politics, doesn’t even approach the level hatred and incitement found in this last Israeli election. Whatever was said and however it was intended, it requires no stretch to imagine that the suspect or anyone like him might come to believe that physically attacking a political opponent, even a 100 year old Rabbi, was doing G-d’s work. I sure that this fellow thought of himself as Pinchas striking down an enemy of G-d and Klal Yisroel.
WM, I think he was referring to the mass execution of the witches of Ashkelon.
I was well aware of what he was talking about — and yet, you still have to deal with the same SbS who was frustrated that he couldn’t do anything about someone whom he knew to be a killer. If he could punish extra-judicially on a whim, why was he so frustrated?
It should be noted that in the case of the witches and in the other case quoted in the Yerushalmi above, the procedures and executions were still handled through a Bais Din. Yes, they may have fudged on the procedures somewhat, but it wasn’t one person unilaterally declaring that so-and-so should be killed and then going out and having it done. The case that we are dealing with here is one person declaring that a person who does this or that should be stoned. No one today, no matter how big a gadol, has the right to do so and, unlike in SbS’s time, there is no Bais Din that can be convened today to handle such cases.
That might explain why SbS could do what he did with the witches but still be vexed over his inability to punish a known murderer.
The Wolf
Do you know that mashal about a needlepoint- until you turn it around it looks messy and wrong but once it is turned around we can see that everything Hashem does is for the good and is just a thread in the tapestry of this beautiful world? We can not judge whether Rav Shteinman is chayav skilah until Mashiach comes and the needlepoint is tuned over. To do so is very wrong and it is not our job as humans to do so.
gavra_at_work,
I don’t buy the “He was not normal” argument.
I have not read much about the incident, but the details I have read seem to point towards mental instability. That steeping in the seething nastiness of the Israeli political climate may have provided a focus or justification for his actions in his mind is a good question. Where a “normal” but misguided person may vilify, an unstable person may act violently. He probably did view himself as upholding some sort of religious honor, but I don’t think his thought processes were rational as you suggest with your question.
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