Chasidim rioting against Beit Shemesh girl's school

shmoel…

“they are not rioting”???

What would you call it if YOUR little girl was having rocks and tomatoes thrown at her, and she was spit at and cursed at on her way into and out of school?!?

they are rioting…they are throwing rocks and tomatoes… these people are not “frum” people…they wear the costume but dont act the act…..

they are rioting…they are throwing rocks and tomatoes… these people are not “frum” people…they wear the costume but dont act the act…..

WADR, I hope you say the same thing about “Muslims” who terrorize.

What’s there to say? It’s a bad situation. The ending will be even worse.

yay! everyone kill chareidim again. (pronounced sarcasm)

And I read that they have the cops protecting the Modern Jews. Also why take a school and put girls in there, when you were supposed to put boys? You know these people don’t consider the way you dress Tzinius. So stop pretending that you’re just a bunch of innocent victims. It’s like the people who read the signs in Meah Shearim and don’t care and walk in anyway not Tzinusdik. I personally don’t condone the rock throwing or other violent behavior, but there is nothing wrong with them yelling and screaming. This is called making a Machoh -on the way you people dress!

Health…

You simply do not know what you are talking about.

1) These people are NOT “modern Jews” with the connotation you have in mind. They are frum Jews, just not Israeli-style ‘chareidi’ (which I am sure you are not either. I can guarantee you they would not consider the way you or your wife dresses to be appropriate either.

2) This was intended as a girls’ school, but what’s the difference? These are frum little girls.

3) This is NOT Meah She’arim. This is at the border of the two communities, it is NOT in “THEIR” community, and it is NOT their building. No one is walking around “not tzniusdik”.

4) What right do people who do not accept the government have to make demands on the government?

5) What right does ANY Jew have to throw rocks and tomatoes at, spit on, and yell at Jewish little girls going to school.

Health – If you knew the facts here, you would know that they would be doing this to YOUR daughter (if you have one) as well.

You may imagine yourself ‘frumer’ than the victims in this story, but believe me by the ‘standards’ of these wackos, YOU are a “Modern Jew”!!!

they are rioting…they are throwing rocks and tomatoes… these people are not “frum” people…they wear the costume but dont act the act…..

WADR, I hope you say the same thing about “Muslims” who terrorize.

I am sure he does say that about muslims who terrorize. Just because they are charedi does NOT mean what they are doing is in any way shape or form ok. And to HEALTH, you people?????? There are many different forms of tsnius, if you cant contain your yetzer harah, then LOOK AWAY. Dont you dare say it is ok to scream and YELL at young children and there families, while they are just trying to go to school and live a normal life.

I work in a school in America, and every year when i have israeli children in my class, ( modern to not religous at all), they tell me they are shocked that there are ultra frum teachers mixed with modern ortho, because in israel you are persecuted if you are not unltra charedi, and vice versa. It is SO SAD that it is that way, and for anyone to read these recent articles about the RIOTS, yes they are RIOTS, and to not consider what these charedim are doing a HUGE chillul Hashem, is beyond me. It is almost Rosh Hashana > Yom kippur, do you really think Hashem wants THIS? Or should i say do you really think Hashem will FORGIVE this?

Health,

you are putting our incorrect information…

1. its a dati leumi neighborhood…and charidim built buildings close to the school

2. the school was always supposed to be for girls

3. the school is elementary school though grade 6 – so you are talking about young girls.

4. the girls are bitznua

5. these “modern” jews are in fact very frum jews… its a strong dati leumi community…and even if they were very modern its not acceptable behavior… RBS is NOT a closed private community.. the school is on a PUBLIC road in a dati leumi area bordering a charidi area… regardless if the girls wanted to wear tank tops and shorts (which they dont at all!) they should be allowed to walk the streets without fear…if you want a closed community buy an area and make such…you cant conquer public land and set rules

Health, you have a college degree and use the internet. You are a “Modern Jew” to them.

To all those defending the rock throwing, child intimidating, rioters:

1. The frum school is in a frum neighborhood that has a long established MO/Chardal/RZ community. The rov in the community was a talmid of Rav Soloveitchik and Rav Lichtenstien. It is not pushing in to a chareidi neighborhood.

2. The group that is doing the violence and protest are the newcomers, having moved in to the edge of the neighborhood more recently, putting the school in question near their homes by their own choice.

3. The girls in question dress in a tzniusdik manner by all but the most over the top standards. The mothers also do, and cover their hair of course. The fathers wear velvet, suede, cloth, and srugah kippot, and some wear black hats.

4. The mayor of Bet Shemesh is acting in a craven weak and unworthy manner in not cracking down.

5. The activities of the rioters is a massive chilul hashem, and is doing much to harm relations between two communities that have much in common and should get along. I have BT friends who live on the street and they are appalled and upset at the rishus coming from those they are supposed to look to as exemplars of yiddishkeit.

6. The families sending their kids to this school include many, many people who work hard and learn Torah. They send their boys to the army, and some of their girls do sherut leumi in hospitals and schools. They are good, God fearing people, and they are the backbone of Israel. I am horrified that they are abused and disrespected in this manner.

from Health …”but there is nothing wrong with them yelling and screaming.”

so if someone doesn’t agree with something you are doing it is ok to scream and at your kids?

and like someone said already, the fact that you ar on the internet according to Charedi in Israel you are very much Modern….

GAW- read my second post on the thread. and i assure you im quite in touch w/ the chareidi mindset; i live in one of the chareidi-est neigfhborhoods. if you see my second post youll understand what i meant. im in no way condoning crazy rioting, and i also believe theyre at fault here.

I’m not sure (not about the rioting, abnout the mindset).

A simple question for you. If you had a choice to either live in a ghetto where everyone was your version of frum by force (those who disagrred are forcibly removed), but have no interaction with the outside world, or in the open where people have a choice, and there may be something that is not 100% your hashkafa (or maybe you will see something shelo K’Halacha), but could interact with the outside, which would you choose? And would it be the same answer as those in Mea Shiarim?

More so, assuming the first (which I am), would you take actions toward that goal?

I would NEVER want to live in a place where people are forcibly removed for being a different “version” of frum.

M80: Really? What if you were a completely Shomer Halacha Jew but felt very uncomfortable only wearing white shirts? Or if you liked the feel of a Kippah Srugah (black, of course) better? Or if your wife wanted to be allowed to stay in Shul until the end of Davening? I agree it’s best if we could have an entirely frum community. But why should anyone in that community have the right to push out other valid opinions and Minhagim?

ill second 80. seeing things sheloh kihalachah is bad. and i dont ascribe validity to certain “hashkafos” that the men who were the closest to Hashem of the last few generations discredited. im not saying id wanna live in meah shearim, but ill take it over times square.

why should anyone in that community have the right to push out other valid opinions and Minhagim?

i love all opinions and Minhagim that are held by maaminin and upholders of our Mesorah from Moshe Rabbainu.

not those opinions that are derived from goyish values disguised by the yetzer harah as Torah.

but then, a question was asked as to ones desire and i answered it. if anyone would prefer something else, thats up to you.

i dont believe i have anything else to say about the subject.

Boom…pfsst. That was the sound of elu voelu divrei elokim chayim falling to the ground and crumbling to dust. so sad.

What in sam hill is going on in beit shemesh?

I think Sam has nothing to do with it (but have always loved the phrase). Maybe a few of his minions.

so, are you saying this hill where sam lived was a field of onions?

LOL Mr. 80.

These “Chassidim” are lost and fighting for the wrong things. I put “Chassidim” in quotations, because just because they dress the dress, doesn’t mean that it is in their heart. They appear to be chassidish, but real, emesdik Chassidim do not act in such a way. It is a small group of “Chassidim” who need to taste a little but of the sweetness of Torah to awaken their neshamas. I do not support what they are doing. Yes, it is wrong. But instead of looking at all the negative about it, we need to realize that these people really need a lot of help. Instead of arguing about it, we should be thinking of what we can do to make a difference and change it together, as a klal. Why don’t you try davening for these “Chassidim” to really see what the light of chassidus is about, instead of making such a chillul Hashem and going against other yidden? How about davening for the girls in the school and the school itself to be able to flourish and be successful in peace? How about telling Hashem how much we need Moshiach so nothing like this ever happens again. Its Elul. Its time to wake up and concentrate on not, “Why” this is happening, and to point fingers, but “How” can I fix it and grow from it.

These “Muslims” are lost and fighting for the wrong things. I put “Muslims” in quotations, because just because they dress the dress, doesn’t mean that it is in their heart. They appear to be Muslim, but real, emesdik Muslims do not act in such a way. It is a small group of “Muslims” who need to taste a little but of the sweetness of the Qur’an to awaken their neshamas. I do not support what they are doing. Yes, it is wrong. But instead of looking at all the negative about it, we need to realize that these people really need a lot of help. Instead of arguing about it, we should be thinking of what we can do to make a difference and change it together, as a klal. Why don’t you try davening for these “Muslims” to really see what the light of Islam is about, instead of making such a desecration of Muhammad (Peace be Upon him) going against other humans, including other Muslims? How about davening for the girls in the school and the school itself to be able to flourish and be successful in peace? How about telling Hashem how much we need the twelth Imam so nothing like this ever happens again. It was just Ramadan. Its time to wake up and concentrate on not, “Why” this is happening, and to point fingers, but “How” can I fix it and grow from it.

Point, Counterpoint.

gavra: The difference is that by the Muslims it is the prevalent attitude by the vast majority and here it is a couple of handfuls of people with no more support.