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Avi K -“Health, the neck restraint IS Not generally allowed unless the officer reasonably believes that his life is in danger.”
Not in Minneapolis. Go look at their Protocols. There are few reasons that it’s allowed there.
From the News:
“Officers from the Minneapolis Police Department have rendered at least 44 individuals unconscious by using neck restraints”
It’s common there.“I reiterate, there should be follow up on the fact that they worked together as bouncers.”
Before commenting, you Should read ALL the Comments HERE!
From JackovLev:
“According to the owner of the club where they both worked, they worked at different times and probably never shared a shift together.”“The Video.
For s/o who claims he watched the video – I Guess you didn’t watch all of them.”which video shows what happened in the car?
I thought I saw all of them. where can I find this one ?“Again he probably didn’t know that. It was a Volatile Scene. He probably saw his eyes closed – SO WHAT?”
“didnt know” is not an excuseIT was 3 minutes that is a long time. Try it sit thee for 3 minutes. and for a few minutes prior As Chauvin said “get in the car” and Floyd said “I will ” I can’t” why didnt Chauvin let him get up and into the car?
“When EMS came he gave over care to them.”
After another minute“I worked in NYC EMS. The rules & laws are probably the same all over.”
Probably not. especially if the rule is evil and insane. Also “I worked in NYC EMS ” is not a source given your poor track record of statements that don’t stand up to facts . where can this rule be found that even if a suspect is no longer resisting, even if he is unconscious (even if he is dead?) You cannot let up until you hand him over to EMS ( or the coroner I guess if he is dead?)“Stop LYING! Placing a guy under arrest with Restraint, when two minutes ago he was Resisting, is Legal, Not a Felony! ”
Interesting. How long does this magic once -you- resist- you -can -be -assaulted rule last? Can they still assault him a day later a week later?
Health, you should check out what they write. According to CBS News “George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the former police officer charged with killing Floyd, worked security at the same local club for much of the year before their fatal encounter on a Minneapolis street last week. The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two were in close proximity once a week for their Tuesday night shifts, though she did not know if they ever actually met while working at the club.”
Ubiq -“which video shows what happened in the car?”
There’s one shot from a distance.
“I thought I saw all of them. where can I find this one ?”
Online.“Again he probably didn’t know that. It was a Volatile Scene. He probably saw his eyes closed – SO WHAT?”
“didnt know” is not an excuse”It’s an Excuse, because we have only 2 EYES. Didn’t you learn Anatomy? 2 Eyes on your Head?
When there is a Volatile Scene he had to Look at the (at least 2 others) Scene to make Sure it was Safe and to Keep it that Way!“IT was 3 minutes that is a long time. Try it sit thee for 3 minutes. and for a few minutes prior As Chauvin said “get in the car” and Floyd said “I will ” I can’t” why didnt Chauvin let him get up and into the car?”
You Libs Always TWIST the TRUTH! They gave him that chance beforehand. They gave the chance to sit Nicely in the Car, which he couldn’t DO! That’s why they pulled him out.
“When EMS came he gave over care to them.”
“After another minute”Another LIBERAL LIE! EMS came on the Scene. The EMT went over & checked his Pulse. After that, they went to get the Stretcher. Then they all Put Him on it!
“where can this rule be found that even if a suspect is no longer resisting, even if he is unconscious (even if he is dead?) You cannot let up until you hand him over to EMS ( or the coroner I guess if he is dead?)”
Ask one of your Lawyer friends. Once s/o is in custody. It’s up to him – what to do next. Who said he was unconscious? His eyes were closed. Some Cops don’t practice Medicine. EMS was en- route. He did a Good Job.
“Interesting. How long does this magic once -you- resist- you -can -be -assaulted rule last? Can they still assault him a day later a week later?”
Once s/o is in Custody, it’s like being in Jail. I’ve been in jail – you do what you’re told or YOU Suffer the consequences!Avi K -“The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two were in close proximity once a week for their Tuesday night shifts, though she did not know if they ever actually met while working at the club.”
Stop with the conspiracy Theories!
When Chauvin came on the scene, he probably didn’t recognize the guy. He was helping Restrain a Resisting Perp.“There’s one shot from a distance.”
Yep saw that one. By defintiion if “from a distance” you cant see what’s happening in the car. I understand the police had body cameras though Those have not been released though Isaw refrences to lawyers refferign to audio it contained.
however , from footage “shot from a distance” you cant see whats happening in the car. At least I can’t
“It’s an Excuse, because we have only 2 EYES. Didn’t you learn Anatomy? 2 Eyes on your Head?”
Why couldn’t he use one of his 2 eyes to look at the suspect he was assaulting who for a full 3 minutes was completly motionless and for a time prior to that said he would cooperate?Sorry, I didnt know is not an excuse. In fact “unintentional” is one of the charges. It is strange to argue your way out of unintentional manslaughter by saying “sorry I ddint know” yes , that is the Charge!
“You Libs Always TWIST the TRUTH! They gave him that chance beforehand.”
Lol what is this some kind of no backsies?I cant heklp but note tyou didnt answer my question
If A suspect resits arrest, for how long after that (once he stops resisting) are polcie still allowed to assault him? a week? a day and hour?“Another LIBERAL LIE! EMS came on the Scene. The EMT went over & checked his Pulse
Yep he checked hsi pulse but the perp kept his knee there for another minute“Ask one of your Lawyer friends.”
I did It use of force is while the suspect is resisting. not for the rest of the day” you do what you’re told or YOU Suffer the consequences!”
you should get a lawyer. Thast not how it works You don’t lose all your rights just because you wind up in custodyUbiq -“Why couldn’t he use one of his 2 eyes to look at the suspect he was assaulting who for a full 3 minutes was completly motionless and”
IDK , he’ll have to explain that in court.
“for a time prior to that said he would cooperate?”
He doesn’t have to believe him & he didn’t!
“Sorry, I didnt know is not an excuse. In fact “unintentional” is one of the charges. It is strange to argue your way out of unintentional manslaughter by saying “sorry I ddint know” yes , that is the Charge!”
Make up your mind, if you can, I asked you what the charge was. You said 2nd Degree Murder, now you’re saying
Manslaughter.
Try that Mind Manipulation in a court of Law.“but the perp kept his knee there for another minute”
At that time he was looking around. I’ll repeat -“When there is a Volatile Scene he had to Look at the (at least 2 others) Scene to make Sure it was Safe and to Keep it that Way!”
“IDK , he’ll have to explain that in court.”
Great!
You must be glad he was charged then“He doesn’t have to believe ”
so why was he repeating “get in the car” Just to taunt him?
And what was he hoping would happen? what was his intended end game“I asked you what the charge was. ”
Oh I thought you followed the case. There are multiple charges :
third-degree murder
second-degree manslaughter,And at any rate As for 2nd degree murder here is one of the definitions that I had supplied, then you repeated (its in your post June 8 8:56 PM)
““…. 3. Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony…….””
The fact that it was “an accident” is not an excuseUbiq -“so why was he repeating “get in the car” Just to taunt him?
And what was he hoping would happen? what was his intended end game”I think it was Sarcasm, Not taunting.
If even you don’t see it in person, there is enough Videos online to understand Police Procedures.
When they are sure the perp Won’t Resist anymore, they respond to that!“And at any rate As for 2nd degree murder here is one of the definitions that I had supplied, then you repeated (its in your post June 8 8:56 PM)
““…. 3. Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony…….””
The fact that it was “an accident” is not an excuse”I answered that on the First page.
Here it is AGAIN:
“Here is the law in Minn. for 2nd Degree murder:
“1. Killing a human intentionally, but without premeditation (not thinking about or preparing for before)
2. Killing a human while committing or attempting a drive-by shooting
3. Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony other than criminal….. conduct ….or a drive-by shooting
4. Causing a death unintentionally, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict great physical harm on the victim when the murderer is currently restrained by a protection order (including for domestic violence, harassment, divorce, or any similar protection order) and the victim was the protected party in that order”For #3:
A felony other than the so-called “Murder”!
Do you understand the English language?!?
Eg. – While robbing a store.bk613 -“He had several other officers assisting him including Officer Thao who was between him and the people on the side walk.”
He’s responsible for own Safety. He can rely on s/o else, if there is enough PD there. I guess he thought there wasn’t. And I agree, because there was a total of 6 & 2 left.“Yes, he needed to be aware of his surroundings at all times but he could have (and should have) spared 10 seconds to make sure Floyd was ok.”
WHY DO YOU KEEP REPEATING? I Answered that already.
“IDK , he’ll have to explain that in court.”“There is no rule or protocol that requires them to keep a suspect handcuffed and pinned on the floor until EMS arrives.”
That’s your Mistake. If a person is Arrested, Not just Detained, they are under the PD’s or Jail’s custody.
What you witnessed in your career, is that it depends on the situation.
If they feel just watching him is enough, that’s what they’ll do.
If they feel they must do more, like Total Restraint, then that’s what they’ll do!Health
“I think it was Sarcasm, Not taunting.”
I dont see the diferenceTeling your vicitm sarcasticly “Get up” knowing he can’t is taunting
“I answered that on the First page.
Here it is AGAIN:”
Answered what? what question whats the answerWhy are we repeatign the same thing Yes I cited the relevent portion, you repeated it , I repeated it two more times now you are copying again
“A felony other than the so-called “Murder”!
ObviouslyDo you understand the English language?!?”
Pretty well
“Eg. – While robbing a store.
Or assaulting someone….Say Tom (not a cop) assaulted Harry, without justification, and Harry died As a result. wouldnt Tom be guilty of second degree murder?
Ubiq -“I dont see the diference
Teling your vicitm sarcasticly “Get up” knowing he can’t is taunting”Well I looked it up.
From Websters:
“taunting; taunts
Collegiate Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb
: to reproach or challenge in a mocking or insulting manner : jeer at
noun
Collegiate Definition (Entry 2 of 2)
: a sarcastic challenge or insult”I was trying to tell you that I think he meant the #2 definition, not the first.
I don’t think he was mocking or insulting him.“Or assaulting someone….
Say Tom (not a cop) assaulted Harry, without justification, and Harry died As a result. wouldnt Tom be guilty of second degree murder?”
No. In Minn. – Unless he did it in those 4 ways. Chauvin is Not guilty of 2nd degree Murder.
Are YOU Sure You Understand ENGLISH?!?Health
“….a sarcastic challenge or insult”
I was trying to tell you that I think he meant the #2 definition, not the first.
I don’t think he was mocking or insulting him.”Got it. So he meant it as an insult but he wasn’t insulting him
“Are YOU Sure You Understand ENGLISH?!?”
Gotcha. So you are, of course, wrong.
to quote te law yet again: ” Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony”
Assault is a felony. IF you attend to commit asssault (a felony) and you intentionally kill the vicitm , yo uare guitly of murder in the second degree .I am so glad to have cleared that up.
No charge!Now you know!
CBS News reported that Coworker David Pinney said the two men had a history.”They bumped heads,” Pinney said.
Ubiq -“Got it. So he meant it as an insult but he wasn’t insulting him”
It’s sad that you don’t understand the English language.
From Websters:
Insult over here means:
“a gross indignity”“Assault is a felony. IF you attend to commit asssault (a felony) and you intentionally kill the vicitm , yo uare guitly of murder in the second degree. I am so glad to have cleared that up.”
Yes, we cleared it up already – I wrote for #3 “other than” for the Murder.
Don’t worry, if the LIBS LIKE YOU are on the Jury, we don’t need a Fake Trial – He’s GUILTY From the Git Go!bk613 -“Exactly, and absent of a really compelling reason why he needed to kneel on Floyds neck for 9 minutes even after he went limp ”
STOP With the Liberal Lies! He wasn’t even unconscious until the last 3 minutes. The first part it was a Legal Restraint.
Avi K -“CBS News reported that Coworker David Pinney said the two men had a history.”They bumped heads,””
How come you didn’t use that to say, like Crump said, he should be charged with 1st degree MURDER?!?
Dear Health,
You can be very polarizing. Could you tell us why?Health
You lost me on the difference between taunting and being sarcastic with.“Yes, we cleared it up already – I wrote for #3 “other than” for the Murder.:
We did clear it up. but you seem confused. If a person unintentionally kills while committing a felony, that is the literal defintion of mmurder in the second degree.
yes other than “for the murder”
If you plan kidnap, rob, assault commit arson (all felonies) and in the process unintentionally kill that is murder in the second degree” He wasn’t even unconscious until the last 3 minutes. The first part it was a Legal Restrain”
Lol so those 3 minutes are some sort of freebie? They get to retrain the suspect while resisitng + 3 extra minutes?“we don’t need a Fake Trial – He’s GUILTY From the Git Go!”
He sure is. but everyone deserves a trial. Maybe he had reason toe believe oxygen was harmful to Floyd and by choking him he was saving his life? (after all he never had EMT training)
As you said “he’ll have to explain that in court.”
I posted that previously. Just out of curiosity, did your “Caps Lock” button get stuck?
Avi K -“I posted that previously. Just out of curiosity, did your “Caps Lock” button get stuck?”
Not At ALL!
It’s called calling attention to your Liberalism.Ubiq -“We did clear it up. but you seem confused. If a person unintentionally kills while committing a felony, that is the literal defintion of mmurder in the second degree.”
YOU ARE The One Who’s Confused!
You seem to Not understand the meaning of #3 “other than” for the Murder.
You can kill s/o by Shooting him or by Assaulting him.
In this case, the Charge for Murder in the 2nd degree, is Not valid.
You need to do 2 things (Felonies), NOT Just the Murder by ASSAULT!Health
“You need to do 2 things (Felonies), NOT Just the Murder by ASSAULT!”you are making this up and it doesn’t make any sense
If a person intends to commit Arson and didnt know a person was inside the building R’L are you saying he cant be charged with second degree murder because it wasn’t a separate act You need to do 2 Felonies?
If a person intends to kidnap someone by stuffing him in the trunk of a car and the person (unintentionally) suffocates he cant be charged with second degree murder becasue it wasnt a separate act You need to do 2 Felonies?Ubiq -“If a person intends to commit Arson and didnt know a person was inside the building R’L are you saying he cant be charged with second degree murder because it wasn’t a separate act You need to do 2 Felonies?
If a person intends to kidnap someone by stuffing him in the trunk of a car and the person (unintentionally) suffocates he cant be charged with second degree murder becasue it wasnt a separate act You need to do 2 Felonies?”In the first case – there were 2 Felonies. Arson & Murder.
In the 2nd case, there was just Murder (One Felony).
Remember, I didn’t Write Minn. 2nd degree Murder Law!Health
“Remember, I didn’t Write Minn. 2nd degree Murder Law!”No but you are making it up and misapplying it, and not even in a logical and consistent way
“In the first case – there were 2 Felonies. Arson & Murder.”
Yep like by Floyd Assalut and murder (an unintended consequence of the assault)“In the 2nd case, there was just Murder (One Felony).”
But he never intended to murder, (in the kidnapping case) so are you saying he cannot be charged for the murder?Sounds like third degree murder is the right charge.
charlie
“Sounds like third degree murder is the right charge.”
Yes he was charged with that too.
but I think there are 2 problems
1) that leaves the other officers with no charge . can you aid and abet an unintended murder?*
2) “evincing a depraved mind” is hard to prove.*You can certainly argue “ok so don’t charge them ” but I think they deserve to be charged too (if not then that is a hole in the criminal code that should be addressed just standing by when a crime is occurring (intended or not) should not be ok). Or if you are more cynical they had to be charged to placate the mob
Oh Charlie & Ubiq – For that Matter, like Crump said, he should be charged with 1st degree MURDER?!?
Even if you can Convince the Jury on all 3 MURDER Charges – it will be thrown out in Minn. Supreme Court!
For Charlie – on the 3rd degree Murder Charge in Minn.:
HG.com -“Murder is charged when a person is killed and the defendant has an indifference to the sanctity of human life.”
He cared about Life, that’s why he didn’t Let a Perp drive under the influence.
That’s why he was Arrested!Health
” it will be thrown out in Minn. Supreme Court!”
why are they that corrupt? I’m not familiar with Minn. Supreme court
At any rate now you understand the rioting. Here y u have a slam dunk case a guy who by any measure of justice is clearly guilty. And yet you are certain he will walk free. And even if found guilty the corrupt upper court will free him? Why shouldnt people riot?
“He cared about Life, ”
Lol, just not enough to check on him for several minutesUbiq -“why are they that corrupt? I’m not familiar with Minn. Supreme court”
Not at All! He’s Not Guilty on any Murder Charge.
“At any rate now you understand the rioting. Here y u have a slam dunk case a guy who by any measure of justice is clearly guilty. And yet you are certain he will walk free. And even if found guilty the corrupt upper court will free him? Why shouldnt people riot?”
Oh I understand why they Riot. This is what happens when people get things – Something for Nothing.
This is what the Demoncrats have taught them!“He cared about Life,
Lol, just not enough to check on him for several minutes”The job of the cops were to call EMS. That they did. Not to check on him every few. Why don’t you learn the Minneapolis Police Protocols before you comment?
“The job of the cops were to call EMS. That they did”
Thats called not caring. “HEy its not my job to see if I can help, I called EMS and thats it”
“Why don’t you learn the Minneapolis Police Protocols before you comment?”
Because it doesnt change the truth at all. And you would just make them up to bend the truth as youve been doing until now (you made up evens in the video, you made up the idea that the there has to be 2 felonies to be charged under the felony murder provision)
Ubiq -“Thats called not caring. “
As long as they do their job. Call it what you Want.
“Because it doesnt change the truth at all.”
The Truth is you need a police dept. Without them there will be Chaos.
I’m waiting to see how Minneapolis will look like – when they won’t have any.
Just like East St. Louis – NO Jobs, High Crime, Extreme Poverty.
Just because the Libs got Their WAY!“As long as they do their job. Call it what you Want.”
Will do.
but you mistankingly wrote earlier ““He cared about Life,” Chauvin didnt . Now you can argue that Cahuvin’s job is not to care about life (as you are now) but he clearly did not care about life, as you concedeSo here you have A fellow who did not care about life (as you say becasue thats not his job) . Im sure youd’d agree one who doesnt care about life is one who is “evincing a depraved mind, ” and he accidentally killed his victim
I am forced to return a verdict of guilty on the charge of murder in the third degree.congratulations! you won your first case!
How does it feel?
“The Truth is you need a police dept. ”
On that we are in full agreement., that was never the topic of this threadUbiq -“but you mistankingly wrote earlier ““He cared about Life,” Chauvin didnt . Now you can argue that Cahuvin’s job is not to care about life (as you are now) but he clearly did not care about life, as you concede.”
By twisting my words – you’re Only Fooling Yourself!
I posted this before – “He cared about Life, that’s why he didn’t Let a Perp drive under the influence.
That’s why he was Arrested!”
So he had a choice – let the Guy full of Drugs drive away or Arrest him.
So the cops arrested him.
If he would have behaved in the cop car, they wouldn’t have to pull him out.
Then he continued to Resist. Now the Libs are blaming the cop for doing his Job.
Their solution is getting RID of Minneapolis PD.
I wrote previously -“Just like East St. Louis – NO Jobs, High Crime, Extreme Poverty”.
I change my mind – it will be Worse than East St. Louis!“So the cops arrested him.”
Chauvin is not in trouble for the arrest
“If he would have behaved in the cop car, they wouldn’t have to pull him out.”
So just leave him there.
At any rate we don’t know wha haepned in the cop car as that footage hasnt been released yet“Then he continued to Resist.”
No then he stoppedand they contiued to choke him.
Because Chauvin “doesnt care about life”
Ubiq -“At any rate we don’t know wha haepned in the cop car as that footage hasnt been released yet”
E/o Knows!
They had to pull him out, because he was thrashing around.
There’s footage of him bleeding around the mouth area.
I haven’t heard the Libs claim the Cops did that, YET!“No then he stopped
and they contiued to choke him”That was their procedure. If there was something wrong with that – the BLACK Police Chief & the MUSLIM AG, should have Stopped it Long Ago!
From the News:
“George Floyd was not the first person to lose consciousness after a Minneapolis police officer put him in a chokehold.
In fact, Minneapolis cops have rendered 44 people unconscious with neck restraints since the beginning of 2015, according to an NBC News analysis of police records. And three-fifths of them were black.
The Minneapolis police define “neck restraints” as any time an officer uses an arm or a leg to press someone’s neck without directly pressuring the airway, more commonly referred to as a chokehold. And Minneapolis police subdued people this way at least 237 times in the past five years, and 16% of these incidents led to the suspects and other individuals losing consciousness, according to the department’s use-of-force records.”“They had to pull him out, because he was thrashing around.”
I dont follow. Let him thrash in the car
“16% of these incidents led to the suspects and other individuals losing consciousness,”
I don’t understand the connection. They arent being charged with causing him to lose consciousness
Ubiq -“I dont follow. Let him thrash in the car.”
I agree with THAT! But the law states that you can’t let people Hurt themselves, whether they are in custody or not.
“I don’t understand the connection. They arent being charged with causing him to lose consciousness.”
The point is that was their procedure. If it wasn’t a good way to do things, then the responsibility Lies with the Gov., NOT with the Cop! They are using the Cops as their SCAPEGOATS!
” But the law states that you can’t let people Hurt themselves, whether they are in custody or not.”
So Just so I have this right. He was in the car, but thrashing too much, so for HIS own safety they dragged him out and held him to the ground in a chokehold.
Is that your contention?“The point is that was their procedure.”
You keep repeating this but it wasnt true then and still isnt true.
No where in their procedure does it allow continued chokeholds after a suspect is no longer resisting..
Ubiq -“Is that your contention?”
That’s Not a contention. That’s a common procedure.
“No where in their procedure does it allow continued chokeholds after a suspect is no longer resisting.”
Until he knew For Sure he was unconscious, he held on – it wasn’t even 3 minutes.
This is a common Police Procedure.
The Libs want to change Reality.
From the news:
“Eric Garner, who died after being put in a chokehold by New York City police officer Daniel Pantaleo, remains one of the most high-profile deaths.
But there are many others: James Thompson in Chicago. Allen Simpson in Dallas. Rodney Lynch in Gallup, N.M. Dustin Boone in Las Vegas. Roger Owensby Jr. in Cincinnati. Carl Glen Wheat in Amarillo, Texas. Gerald Arthur in New Orleans. Torris Harris in Chattanooga, Tenn.
In Minneapolis, where Floyd was killed and where chokeholds had been permitted until this month, the police used neck restraints at least 237 times since 2015 and rendered 44 people unconscious through the technique.”Hypothetically
If say audio from body camera is released. And when Lane says “Should we roll him over” Chaiuin says “No lets make sure he is dead first”
would that change your mind at all?(strictly hypothetical I’m not saying this is what happened)
Ubiq -“says “No lets make sure he is dead first”
would that change your mind at all?”What are you saying he wanted to kill him at the Git Go?!?
You libs are doing everything to make sure that there is No justice in the US.
C’mon I watched the video in Atlanta – the BLACK Mayor & her white Woman Police Chief made it into that the White Cops were Wrong.
They were So nice to the Black Perp until he resisted.
The only solution is to Make Walls around these Liberal Towns & Cities! Of course – NO PD.“What are you saying he wanted to kill him at the Git Go?!?”
No, and I made clear that this wasnt what I was saying. (Though it wouldn’t surprise me given a callous toward human life he was, but I have zero evidence to support this)
“C’mon I watched the video in Atlanta ”
We arent talking about the video in AtlantaSo I ask again:
If say audio from body camera is released. And when Lane says “Should we roll him over” Chaiuin says “No lets make sure he is dead first”
would that change your mind at all?(strictly hypothetical I’m not saying this is what happened)
He should get life sentence period
Ubiq -“If say audio from body camera is released. And when Lane says “Should we roll him over” Chaiuin says “No lets make sure he is dead first”
would that change your mind at all?”Sorry, I can’t live in that Make Believe. IMHO, he would Never say that.
The only Make Believe I can think of – if Lane says “Should we roll him over” Chauvin says “No lets make sure he is unconscious first.”” IMHO, he would Never say that.”
indulge me.
Most of your posts are make believe why draw the line here
Anyone else here thinks that ubiquitin and Health are really just one person having fun here?
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