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A shul in my neighborhood sponsors a shiur on Wednesday nights during the summer. The shul does this as a public service to the community. They do not charge for the shiur and, in fact, provide dinner to people attending the shiur (although I never partake in the dinner). It should also be pointed out (if it makes any difference) that I am not a member of the shul.
Tonight’s shiur was to be on the topic of polygamy, a subject which I find personally interesting*. As a result, I went to the shul after Mincha and attended the shiur.
However, as it turns out, the person giving the shiur decided to change the subject and instead talk about shadchanus and brokerages — a somewhat related subject, but not really something that I had an interest in. I quickly found myself bored by the shiur and left after about fifteen to twenty minutes (I did try).
I found that I was disappointed by the change of topic. Had the speaker mentioned that he was going to speak about shadchanus and brokerages from the start, I would probably not have attended at all. In a way, I almost feel cheated.
My question is this: do I have any real justification for feeling disappointed and cheated? After all, it’s not as if the shul actually owed me a shiur. They were providing a free service to the community. Am I a kafui tov for being disappointed concerning the shiur which was being provided for free?
Or do I have a legitimate complaint** in that I may have made other plans had I not been misled about the topic?
The Wolf
* No, I have no actual interest in having two or more wives. One is quite enough, thank you very much. My interest is strictly academic.
** Not that I’m going to ask for damages or anything like that.
Sure you do, Wolf. You were disappointed and you have a right to feel that way. If you went to an ice cream parlor that was giving free pistachio ice cream and you thought you were getting pistachio ice cream but were served vanilla (which is still pretty good, but just not what you were expecting), you would have a right to feel “cheated” even if it was free. HOWEVER, in my humble opinion, you should not give VOICE to that disappointment to the person who gave the shiur etc, in view of the facts you stated regarding it being a free shiur, not being a member of that shul, etc. If you paid good money to attend the shiur, then you have a right to express your dissatisfaction.
Wolf your feeling of disappointment, and all other questions regarding the Wed. night shuir need to be directed to Shul Member who gave the Shuir. Just ask the speaker why he changed the theme, and work it out with him.
wolf – Why do you think if something is free one has a right to take advantage of you. Maybe you cant have taynos on them (because its not like something you were owed and didn’t get), but after all its not right of them.
JMO~ you’re ALWAYS entitled to your feelings & opinions. but this is no biggie, so move on. 🙂
I am a member of this shul, just wanted to make sure you are aware that everyone, members and non-members, are welcome to eat dinner and enjoy. We make sure to order plenty of food and have the caterer on stand -by if we need more. Hope you come to the other shiurim. The topic change was last minute at the request of some of the atendees. Thank you
You definitely have the right to feel disappointed; you spent the time to come out and here a shiur on something you weren’t interested in. While they have no obligation to provide free shiurim for you, it was inconsiderate of them to change topics without notice. Someone should mention that to the organizers.
You can be disappointed (that does not mean angry, I mean just disappointed) but nothing more than that and I dont think you should make a big deal about it. You might not know why the speaker had to change the topic last minute.
I think you do have justification for feeling disappointed, though given the fact that the shiur was free as a public service, and the possibility that there may have been a miscommunication between the organizers and the presenter, I think you are also correct that you probably shouldn’t say anything.
I feel that the reason you may question whether you have the right to feel disappointed comes because what the shul is doing, offering a free shiur to the whole community plus dinner, is a very nice, upright thing to do. That factor acts as an emotional counterweight to your disappointment.
So here’s a parallel situation. Suppose I advertised in a paper that I wanted to give away a certain rare item for free . You have been interested in acquiring that very item for some time, so you make a long schlep over to my place to get the item (let’s assume you didn’t call to confirm, but somehow knew the item wasn’t taken yet). When you arrive, I say that I’ve changed my mind and want to keep the item, but here’s a different item for free that has the same monetary value. Would you feel disappointed? Would you have the right to? After all, your time was spent in getting there.
In the above case, I wouldn’t think “damages” should be paid, but a statement of “I came a long way and unfortunately this wasn’t the item I was expecting” followed by an apology to you would seemingly be justified. After all, it was my advertisement that was responsible for bringing you out.
I forgot to mention that the reason I agree that you shouldn’t say anything in the shiur case (unlike the free item case I imagined above) is because of the niceness of what the shul is doing.
In other words, I feel that your disappointment is justified, but given that the shul is going out of its way to do something nice for the community, it’s a good thing that you cut them slack.
“I quickly found myself bored by the shiur and left after about fifteen to twenty minutes”.
Wolf, I’m not with you on this one. First, the shiur was not so off the topic; they both dealt with Ishus. It’s not like the shiur was supposed to deal with Pesach but was changed to the Halachic Status of the Mustache.
Also, a good magid shiur/darasha should keep your attention no matter what the topic is and a bad one will put you to sleep, no matter what the topic is.
Wolf, Since this is not for monetary profit or gain, they didn’t “cheat” you. But you still have a right to be disappointed, the way one would be if a trip was changed due to weather conditions.
Mentchlichkeit would have dictated them forewarning the mass (even a sign on the door) so that people would be aware of the change in plans (I’m sure they weren’t thinking)- perhaps that would be a more profitable topic of discussion.
Wolf, I didn’t mean for you to think I was implying that you WOULD say something. I am also a non-confrontational type, and I myself would have been disappointed but would have said nothing. I won’t even return a badly prepared main dish to a resturant kitchen (too afraid they will spit in my food). I still feel that you had a right to feel disappointed, free shiur or not. I probably would not have left, though. I feel the speaker could be embarrassed by that.
Wolf – Being disapointed dosen’t have to mean that you are upset and have a complaint about them. You can be disapointed cause you wasted your time, but on the other hand you don’t need to be upset at them.
Wolf – Disappointment is a feeling, you don’t have to be right or wrong in order to have this feeling, if you have it – you have it, It doesn’t have anything to do with, should I have not gotten disappointed. If you got disappointed then you obviously are, and there is nothing wrong.
Because the Torah tells us anger is wrong and doesn’t tell us disappointment is wrong.
anger is a much stronger emotion and people generally act upon their anger and get all worked up. if you want to be disappointed thats fine but dont go and act all rash because of it.
Wolf – If your hungry you are hungry, if your tired your tired, if your dissappointed (nothing wrong with) then your disappointed, how do you make yourself not disappointed?
How is there no negative connotation with hunger (or at least any less than with disappointment)?
Wolf – Can you answer the second part.
I do not think being disappointed equals to being an ingrate.
Wolf, I don’t understand your last statement. Emotions are normal and define our human nature. It’s what we do with our feelings that matter. You can still be disappointed about something seemingly small as long as you put those feelings to constructive use.
One doesn’t contradict the other. You can miss a light and be late for an appointment and feel bad and be disappointed- even if you have no one in particular that should feel disappointed at. It doesn’t make you a worse person. Just move on and don’t let it aggravate you too much.
I actually think you *should* be disappointed. You wanted to hear a shiur on a specific topic, but you didn’t. It should be the same disappointment as you would feel if you were told that the topic was changed because the scheduled maggid shiur came down with laryngitis – not an upset disappointment, but a disappointment that you didn’t hear the shiur you wanted to.
Had you gone to the local pizza shop and been told that they ran out of your favorite topping, I would agree that although the normal human emotion would be to feel disappointment, the ideal would be not to. Since, however, we’re discussing talmud Torah, and one is supposed to learn what interests him, disappointment is fully justified.
If you think yur leeching off the shul then maybe you shouldn’t go to that shul for a shiur or any minyanim? Who gave you the right to take the shul’s food and shiurim if you think it’s leeching off of them. Perhaps Burech Bendit (the person from the shul who posted above) should tell you that your not welcome until you stop leeching and support the shul.
If you think yur leeching off the shul then maybe you shouldn’t go to that shul for a shiur or any minyanim?
Ever hear of Hillel?
Perhaps you’re right (for once). Perhaps I should stop “stealing” their services.
Atzas hayetzer. Go to the shiur, and if you want, enjoy the food. The people sponsoring it want you to. It’s a z’chus for them.
(Mosherose)If you think yur leeching off the shul then maybe you shouldn’t go to that shul for a shiur or any minyanim?
(DY)Ever hear of Hillel?”
Good answer. Really good.
oomis1105, thanks.
Who gave you the right to take the shul’s food and shiurim if you think it’s leeching off of them.
Perhaps you’re right (for once). Perhaps I should stop “stealing” their services.
The Wolf
If you truly feel that way I’ll speak to the rav of the shul (Rav S.) about keeping you out of the shul so you don’t “steal” their services anymore.
If you speak to the Rav of the shul and he says I should be banned from the shul so that I don’t “steal” their services and the like
I wouldn’t worry too much about that happening.
I spoke with the rav and he said that if this person is stealing from the shul then he is not welcome to come back to the shul for the shiurim the dinners or even davening.
I spoke with the rav and he said that if this person is stealing from the shul then he is not welcome to come back to the shul for the shiurim the dinners or even davening.
Well, then, it’s a good thing he’s not stealing from the shul, so he’s welcome to come.
Wolf, do you know mosherose IRL? (Just because his posts are almost always in response to you)
If you think you have the ‘right’ to be disapointed and write an article about it, I ask you, do I have the right to be disapointed that this is a topic I have to think about and consider in my day as well.
I am sure that you had a right to want to hear a particular shiur, but if someone wants to teach you another topic, be glad if you can.
Personally I would go to the dinners. Food is good and so is good company.
“I spoke with the rav and he said that if this person is stealing from the shul then he is not welcome to come back to the shul for the shiurim the dinners or even davening.
Well, then, it’s a good thing he’s not stealing from the shul, so he’s welcome to come.”
He himself admitted above that it’s stealing.
“Wolf, do you know mosherose IRL? (Just because his posts are almost always in response to you)”
I know who wolf is. I dont think he knows who I am.
He himself admitted above that it’s stealing.
No, he didn’t.
Even had he thought he was stealing, I have a right to disagree with him.
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