Chabad Media Won

@qwerty oh also reish lakish argues with r simai , see the gemarah you quoted, (don’t just take one line out)
This is clearly talking about moshiach
(And your splitting moshiach and olem habah is correct its not the same thing but many times like here its referring to techiyas hamasim after moshiach comes as is clearly seen from the gemarah and as those meforsbim i brought write clearly.
And its harder to be zoche to olem habah than techiyas hamasim, see likutai torah

Yankel berel
Its very good proof.
The rebbe explained it logicly, look in the sicha
What the rebbe said about the chazon ish, all the rebbe xid was exain a gemara, the gemara says that a talmid chachum who did not learn a part of torah in this world, won’t be able to learn that part in olem habah . He can be the greatest talmid chachum

@sechel
I find it difficult to conduct a serious discussion with you because half of the time you don’t understand my point and the other half you do not explain what it is you are reacting about and even then, its hard to understand what you are attempting to say.

To Seichel

Where do you see Resh Lakish’s opinion in the Gemara under discussion. The answer is nowhere. You take lying to a different dimension. If you had a quarter of a brain you would know that R Simai wasn’t the one who said that most Jews won’t be redeemed by Moshiach that was Rava. Again the reason you lie about that Gemara is because it proves that your dead god was a Kofer and a liar. And how do you explain that Kofer rejecting the Gemara which says that there is no Nevuah until Moshiach comes?

To coffee

Can you cite the Gemara which says that Yakov is god. I asked my Rov and he said there’s no such Gemara. It’s possible that he made a mistake. I need the Mesechta , blatt and Amud.

To the group

About two weeks ago I predicted that cs would return and she did. The only way to explain this is to say that I’m a Novi. Now that goes against the Gemara but the Rebbe said that certain individuals can attain prophecy and I’m clearly one of them

To always

Let me develop the Miller Chabad connection. When Rabbi Miller was 17 a Lubavicher taught him Kesubos and didn’t charge him. This put him on his path of Torah and so he had Hakaras Hatov for Chabad. To that point in his public speeches he always praised Chabad and the Rebbe. When Rav Shach made his pronouncement Rabbi Miller was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He couldn’t go against the Godol Hador, but he’d look like a fool if he said he was wrong. So he copped out and declared, “When great people argue we don’t get involved.” Rabbi Miller said that if one continues to tell the truth eventually his enemies will quote him. If you listen with an open mind you’ll ultimately see that we’re right about Chabad.

#sechel
lol
what makes berger a rabbi , you ask ??

One hundred percent sure that , would dr berger state that MMS is mashiach , he would be lauded as one of the most influential rabbanim in the MOZ world …..

.

To Seichel

What makes Berger a Rabbi? The fact that he has Smicha from YU. Not only that. He graduated as valedictorian of YU. That means he was considered the outstanding student of that institution. That’s like you. When you finished your higher education in 2nd grade you were voted most likely to succeed.

qwerty first answer my question in brachos in the other thread – on the gemara you just learned for 10s of hours on this blatt, then ill discuss this gemara with you. it would help if you would read this gemara – the whole page then comment,
here in english:
With regard to the verse: “For I have taken you to Myself: And I will take out one of a city, and two of a family” (Jeremiah 3:14), Reish Lakish says: The meaning of this statement is as it is written, that only individuals will be spared and the rest will be destroyed. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed. Likewise, the Gemara relates that Rav Kahana sat before Rav, and sat and said: The meaning of this statement is as it is written. Rav said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed.

also on that gemarathe maharal explains on that gemara of 1/300k that it means from all the jews who lived in all the generations, many died or were killed. so what will be left when moshiach comes will be 1/300k. nothing to do with only some jews being redeemed. so by techiyas hamasim the jews will multiply 300k times. because all the jews from all generations will come back

Menachem Shmei, that’s why I don’t ask Lubavitche whether they worship their rebbe, because like you are doing, they all deny it. This is one of the reasons why I don’t have a clear view of the percentage of Lubavitche believe in the ideology that the Rebbe is alive and that he runs the world, because they all deny that they engage in idol worship.

The reason I say what I say about Lubavitch and I’m standing behind what I say is because I watch videos and read articles by Lubavitche “rabbis” for Lubavitche Chassidim. That’s how I know what they truly believe in.

Praying to a your human being rebbe, praying to his chair, praying to him in his synagogue 770, praying to him in his ohel, praying to him on the North Pole and down under in Austrlia, praying for him wherever you are because you believe he is all over and that he runs the world is IDOL WORSHIP.

To philosopher

Menachem Shmei is the prototypical Chabad liar but Seichel openly declared his belief in a tripartite god composed of Hashem Yaakov and the Rebbe, not necessarily in that order. Last year, after the tunnel incident Zev Brenner interviewed a few Lubavitchers. Zev said that there are Meshichistim and anti- Meshichistim. One of the Lubavitchers told Zev that every Lubavicher believes the Rebbe is Moshiach but some lie and deny it to fool mainstream Jews.

To DaMoshe

Last year this Chabad woman told me on VIN that she knows the Rebbe runs the world because she sees what he’s done for her and what he’s still doing for her. I asked her if Hashem has ever done anything for her and, she disappeared. If you ask them the right questions they scream Sinas Chinam and run away

To coffee addict

Thanks I’m surprised my Rav wasn’t familiar with that Gemara. I probably wasn’t clear when I asked him.

@sechel

@CS

@Lostspark

@menachem shmei

You keep on claiming that habad critics are motsi shem ra ?

The following I saw with my own eyes:

a habad truck with
right beside a picture of their rebbi

Rebbe, Advisor ,Leader ,Prophet, Redeemer, God. [!!]

????

@yankel berel get your eyes checked

sechel > Dr berger knows more about Christianity (which is an issur to learn in this weeks parsha)

I skip your words of disrespect to a Talmid Chacham that for some reason made thru our generous mods or maybe only some semichos are protected here?), but here you are misinformed. It is not assur to learn it in order to argue and this is exactly what R Dr Berge is doing. Ramban participated in a disputation and won it, do you think he did not prepare for that meeting?

Yankel

I’m struggling with a big question:

Who is the bigger idiot, the idiot or the idiot that argues with him? Obviously qwerty is the idiot, so what does that make me?

The following I saw with my own eyes:

a habad truck with
right beside a picture of their rebbi

Rebbe, Advisor ,Leader ,Prophet, Redeemer, God. [!!]

????

—————————————-

What was the rejoinder ??? The logical habad rejoinder ???

yankel berel , get your eyes checked

————————————–

Is it possible to have a normal debate with such people ?

To always

Rabbi Miller said, *If you keep speaking the truth eventually your enemies will quote you.” I’m glad to see that you took Seichel to task for insulting Rabbi Dr. Berger. Lubavichers are idolaters and so they lash out at anyone who challenges their false religion.

To the group

Menachem Shmei has categorically denied that Chabad is idolatry. All the evidence points otherwise. So how do we explain this? No one can accuse a Lubavicher of lying because they all eat Cholov Yisroel. Since the Rebbe declared in 1962 that he’s god clothed in human form it follows that Shmei holds that iRebbe is Hashem and so believing in him is believing in Hashem..Makes complete sense. But only after ingesting a large quantity of certain mushrooms. And let’s not forget the third Stooge, Lostspark. A few weeks ago he vehemently denied that any Lubavicher believes the Rebbe is god.Then he reverses himself and challenges me to respond to Seichel’s “proof” that the Rebbe is god. It is what it is.

@Always ask
Seems to me that all that historical back and forth between hasidim and mitnagdim is IRRELEVANT when we are discussing the novel last rebbi from habad approach. and all the newfangled stuff since their rebbi’s …

death / rebirth / disappearance/ non death or however else you want to call it .

[Btw reminds me a bit of the male / female / non binary etc etc circus] .

History is always interesting but not always relevant.
.

To philosopher

Some years ago I was with a group and I mentioned that I’m anti-Chabad. Someone said, “Oh. You’re a follower of Dr. Berger.” I told him, “No. I’m an agreeer of Dr. Berger. We came to the same conclusion but he got there by researching the subject. I discovered the truth by interacting with Lubavitchers in my neighborhood.” Several years ago I was in a YI which has a Chabad Rabbi. His son-in-law spoke at the Kiddush, “People compare the Rebbe to Moshe Rabbeinu but the Rebbe was much greater. The Torah says that Moshe got angry, but the Rebbe never got angry.”

To always

You see Seichel questioning Dr. Berger’s credentials. I went through this last year.The Lubavitchers wouldn’t accept that I was a doctor. It’s because they’re trained to lie at all times.

To the group

Lostspark decided to weigh in with his idiotic assertion that MO is idolatry..First off that’s nonsense. Second, even if it’s true that YU endorses pride and they don’t, what does that have to do with our subject? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Chabad is idolatry. If Lostspark wants to start a thread to attack MO, gezunterheit.

To Menachem Shmei

I’m glad you gave this answer because it gives me the opportunity to shoot holes into all of Chabad’s heretical claims. When we use a term we must be careful that it’s use in its correct, Halachic sense. Nevuah, as it’s properly understood, means that Hashem spoke to the Novi. The Novi then says some variation of, “Thus said Hashem and he continues with the prophecy.” The Rebbe called the Rayatz a Novi, but he doesn’t relate any specific prophecy. I’ll amplify this point. One of the Rabbis of the Chabad shul I attend read a letter in which the Rebbe described the characteristics of a Chabad Nasi. One such qualification is that he has Ruach Hakodesh. The Rabbi then defined Ruach Hakodesh as Nevuah, but that’s patently false. Ruach Hakodesh is one thing, Siyata Dishmaya is another and Nevuah is a third and they’re not interchangeable. Lubavichers regularly “prove” that the Rebbe was a Novi by saying he made correct predictions. That’s not Nevuah. Therefore I’m not impressed with that word being thrown around regarding other Rabbis. It’s not technically correct. Why is this important? I asked another Rabbi in that shul when the Moshiach business started and he told me, “When the Rebbe took over in 1951 he said he’s Moshiach so that’s all we needed to hear.” That’s the problem with people using Halachic terms haphazardly. The Rebbe is not, and never will be a Novi. Nor did he ever make any statements that qualify as Nevuah. Now let’s expand on this point. Seichel keeps reminding the thread that Yaakov Avinu is god because Hashem called him god. Therefore it follows in his ‘mind” that the Rebbe is also god. So again, I don’t know what the Gemara meant when it said that Yaakov is god. Hashem created the world Yesh Miayin. He had no assistance. When we come to shul on Rosh Hashanah the entire theme is to recognize to the nth degree that Hashem is the only force in the world. He decides who will live and who will die, who will become rich and who’ll be impoverished etc. So when Cunin says that it’s the Rebbe who makes those decisions he’s declaring that G-d no longer exists. When another Rabbi of my Chabad shul said, “We have nothing to fear because Hashem and the Rebbe are protecting us he’s positing that Hashem has a partner in running this world.” Sadly you’re so far lost that you can’t understand that what I’m saying is the incontrovertible truth, but again I don’t write to convince you or your fellow idolaters. I write to expose your false religion and to hopefully win over some Jews who are on the fence.

Menachem Shmei, all these things are irrelevent to the fact that Lubavitche say the Rebbe runs the world and you can pray to him anywhere because he is everywhere. It’s avoidah zora mamesh.

Basic summery
What ever it says in chazal, rishonim, achronim, and todays gedolim – you understand it the way you want, so you cant bring it as basis for anything
Whatever the rebbe, or any chabad rabbi says , you need to understand it litterly, so even if they quote a gemara, in gemarah its not litteral, and in cunins words its litteral.
I hope i got this correct?

lost> Maybe he should have learned chassidus to avoid this terrible aversion to the derech.

R Soloveitchik, to my knowledge, did not endorse any clubs. Are you trying to make a parallel between L Rebbe and later behavior of chabadnikim with RYBS and current YU leadership (was it a grad school?). This is an interesting question indeed – what a person proclaims and what it leads to in a longer term is a fair question to ask. Similarly, is Chaim Volozhiner responsible for modern excesses of your local yeshiva?

specifically, I don’t think RYBS had same influence on YU outside of his own teaching. For example, in his article explaining why it is good to have a medical school at YU, he says that his approval is b’deived as nobody asked his opinion l’hatchilah.

Qwerty,

The Rambam tells us what nevuah is in הלכות יסודי התורה.

Ruach Hakodesh is one thing, Siyata Dishmaya is another and Nevuah is a third and they’re not interchangeable.

You yourself conflated ruach hakodesh with nevuah, because the Gemara which you paraphrased as “there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes” actually says: “Since the death of Chagai, Zachariah and Malachai, RUACH HAKODESH departed from Yisroel.”

The Rebbe called the Rayatz a Novi, but he doesn’t relate any specific prophecy.

Why do you drone on about what the Rebbe did or didn’t say or mean, if you’ve never even read it!?
I understand that you struggle with Hebrew and Yiddish, but (1) If you don’t know something, say I don’t know. Don’t start assuming what he said.
(2) At least read a loose translation in English! Google “Chabad dot org parshas shoftim 5751” (lacks all the sources and leshonos of the original, but at least read this.)

I don’t know what the Gemara meant when it said that Yaakov is god.

You obviously don’t know what it meant if you keep taking it at face value as AZ ch”v, but why do you keep attacking ideas if you don’t even understand their meanings?

@sechel

Sehel complains that whatever habad says is taken by its critics in a literal sense.
Answer is simple – that’s because that’s the way it is taken by habad hasidim , the intended audience – in a literal sense.
Which is also part of the speakers intention.

Doesn’t the speaker know that his hasidim will take it literally ??
Sure he does .

And he nevertheless continues speaking , knowing that it will be taken literally.
Without any caveats or warnings, that this meant to be understood in a non literal sense

So ,after we know that the audience AND the speaker mean it literal, why the complaint about the critic and the bystander also taking it literally ?

This is disingenuous , in my view.
————————————————
Btw – this is how their rebbi succeeded in getting his hasidim to this point .

You cannot whip your followers into hysterics overnight .
You cannot change their mind overnight either.
Don’t forget all those ideas of him being the greatest the cleverest the one we waited for 2000 years etc etc are all new . They had to seep into his follower’s consciousness AND subconsciousness .

That takes time, subtlety and consistency.

The best way is to use language which lends itself to both a literal and non literal meaning .
Thats how it is never earth-shattering news , which might cause opposition, evidence-based scrutiny or criticism .
Because its ‘only’ non literal.
Not a big deal.

But the new language lodges itself in the listener’s brain.
Then there is a repetition, or better, many repetitions , until this becomes part of normal conversation between his followers, like hello and good morning.

Which again fortifies this new idea in the listeners consciousness. It becomes so strong and so pashut in his mind after years of the above , that when challenged by an outsider who did not go thru this process, the listener genuinely believes the outsider is at odds with objective reality.

This has been going on for the last 8 decades, with the abysmal results now plainly on display.