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To always
With all due respect whenever I read your posts I come out confused by what you’re actually saying. Rabbi Soloveitchik’s opinion of Chabad from 80 years ago isn’t relevant to our discussion. The point we’re making is that Chabad sees itself as “separate but superior” to mainstream Judaism.
philosopher to Neville: nor does anyone have a right to argue pshat differently than what he, Neville, was taught in cheder…unbelievable. He’s a total bully, which as I mentioned earlier, is a result of low self esteem.
You, philosopher, have no right to decide how to learn pshat in Rashi since you did not go through the cheder-yeshivah experience. And you certainly have no right to argue with the Or Hachayim or the Rif on the Ein Yaakov. But that’s ok, you and your unmentionable colleague – and he also did not have a cheder-yeshivah upbringing – know better because you have decided to misinterpret Rashi to suit your wokish understandings (e.g. Yaakov can’t be alive in a grave because then he would be suffering).
I reiterate, it’s not your of his fault that you/he didn’t go through the cheder-yeshivah experience, but it’s also not my fault that I’m not a brain surgeon, yet it would be totally ridiculous for me to attempt brain surgery because “it’s not my fault”. You and him (If qwerty is indeed merely a him. Who knows what he has decided to be? Perhaps he has decided to be His Holiness.) should not argue with those who have had years of experience learning from melamdim who knew how to learn and knew how to teach. It doesn’t make us better than you. It makes us more knowledgeable in this field.
And you calling Neville a bully reminds me once again about the pot and the kettle.
philosopher: your ridiculous assumptions that i have to accept your arguments because you are men and I’m a woman. That is absolutely preposterous.
Nope. Not at all preposterous. A woman, as well as anyone who has not been through cheder and yeshivah, should not argue about gemoro, Rishonim and Acharonim, with me, Neville or anyone else who is a shomer Torah uMitzvos (which I assume you are too) and has been through cheder and yeshivah and who continues learning to some degree consistently.
You seem to continue taking it as an insult, but it’s not. Just as when the gemoro says that המלמד בתו תורה כאילו מלמדה תפלות is not an insult to women, and בינה יתירה ניתנה לאשה is not an insult to men. They are statements of Chazal who knew the depths of people’s psyches and knew that there are MAJOR intellectual and emotional differences between men and women.
To Benedict ARSo
I hate to burst your bubble but I went to Yeshiva for 12 years MTJ. However I failed to learn at that time. It was my fault. I was very good in secular studies and didn’t think that learning would be part of my life. Here’s the problem with your grandiose statements. According to you only someone who spent years in Cheder Yeshiva is qualified to offer Torah thoughts. As I mentioned one of my Rabbis is a BT. He went from Mechallel Shabbos Wall St. banker to an Ilui and I don’t use that term very often. According to you the Lubavitcher Rebbe isn’t fit to be involved in Halachic discourse since he never went to formal Yeshiva. The point is that there’s no one size fits all in Judaism. There have been Geirim who became Gedolei Yisrael. So what is needed? Intellectual honesty. The ability to consider another point of view other than your own. How often do the Tannaim and Amoraim shlug up kasha’s on their opponents because they’re not looking to win. Rather they’re seeking the truth something that bullies like you and the Minuval know nothing about. Too bad you won’t read this .You might learn something. But then again as you said you know more than all Rabbis. Yes that sounds like something Rav Moshe would say.NOT.
I have not argued pshat on anything besides Yaacov lo meis. Whether you like it or not, Rashi doesn’t say that Yaacov is alive physically and I don’t have to take it as that particularly when the meforshim ive gone through, and the Gemorah, all state that he is alive in a spiritual manner. Regardless of you being a man, you don’t own the Torah. And you have bought no Rav to support your position that Yaacov is alive physically.
As for the other meforshim, I didn’t argue pshat, I simply bought them down in its entirety, the words of the meforshim themselves disputed anyone who tried minisinterpret their meaning. I have not argued “with the Or Hachayim or the Rif on the Ein Yaakov” as you claim i did. As usual, you lie.
Certainly, lying bullies like you and Neville will not tell me what the Truth of the Torah is. Neville has not bought meforshim, but you have tried to misinterpret them, I had to go to the source and find the meforshim in its entirety to learn exactly what was written and it was never what you claimed it meant.
Don’t you have any other hobbies besides attacking people who don’t agree with you on the words “Yaacov lo mes”?
One of Arso’s arguments against me is that only those who went through the yeshiva system “know how to learn pshat” which is a faulty argument. As qwerty pointed out, many baal teshuvas and many geirim who grew into talmidei chachomim didn’t go through the yeshiva system. Onkeles didn’t go through the yeshiva system… it’s absolutely ridiculous to think that ALL those who go through the yeshiva know how to grasp pshat well and those who didn’t can never understand how to learn pshat.
Regarding women learning pshat on their own there’s nothing wrong with that, its absolutely not against halacha, so too bad on those who get riled up about me learning pshat on my own.
To Philosopher
To your point. Benedict is implying that attending a Yeshiva guarantees that one will be equipped to understand Pshat. If he’s an example of what the Yeshivas produce you can fill in the rest.
To yashardik
You revved up the thread but then disappeared. Let’s hear more input from you and many others. Contrary to what some might think, I don’t want to monopolize the discussion.
To Philosopher
It’s worth noting that no one commented on my Moshol regarding Eliyahu Hanovi. Now every frum Jew knows that he comes to every bris and to every Seder. But why don’t we see him? Parshas Nitzavim provides the answer, “Nigleh is for us and Nistar is for Hashem.” We have to know and follow Halacha. The esoteric is light years beyond us. Can we suggest answers? Absolutely but to try and reduce these statements into bitesize pieces is not only impossible but si hut nisht kein Yiddishe Taam. And the physical world brings a very powerful Moshol. We know that there are sounds and sights that humans can’t hear or see. Hashem is telling us that we can’t know everything. I generally don’t address my comments to the low-lives except when I want to shtuch them because they’re already in Gehinnom in this world.
Arso > You, philosopher, have no right to decide how to learn pshat in Rashi since you did not go through the cheder-yeshivah experience. And you certainly have no right to argue with the Or Hachayim or the Rif on the Ein Yaakov
I did not follow your argument, but this statement per se is outrageous. Here is a learned lady bringing an argument and you are using invalid logical arguments to put her down. Could you just analyze her statement per se? Maybe you did somewhere else. You also seem to support R Soloveitchik position for coed Torah classes – his thinking was that separate classes will lead to inferior education. (I think he was right for the time and communities he dealt with, not necessarily true now). Your statement seems to mean that you think girls in your community get worse education in meforshim.
“nor does anyone have a right to argue pshat differently than what he, Neville, was taught in cheder…unbelievable.”
I was not, nor will you find a comment claiming I was. I’m just a guy who knows his place.Philosopher: you’re staw man’ing by saying I’m trying to force my shittah on you. I’ve never even told you my belief on this matter, nor will I ever. The reason I’m not bringing you meforshim is because I genuinely don’t care, unlike you who claims to not care but clearly does very deeply.
Have you ever heard a fresh immigrant come to America and complain about a bunch of stuff being worse in their mind (healthcare, etc.)? Everyone hates those types. You’re right, it’s not my right to tell you or any other BT what to believe in your own mind, but it is in my interests to tell you what is and isn’t a normal thing to say publicly, which is all I’ve been doing here. Accusing a mainstream interpretation of being Chabad propaganda is not a wise thing to do.
To the argument about yeshiva credentials – who knows … it is very hard to figure out whose logic is better when you discuss kabbalistic issues while calling each other kindergarten names.
that is why I am very much for first studying subjects that are easier to evaluate or for using objective criteria to measure who is reasonable – whether from uniform tests on Chumash or LSAT or any other intellectual test, as long as they are not on memorization but on actual using your brains. How about all contenders here go to chess com and play each other, then report here who is a winner.
To Philosopher
The Minuval proudly announces that he never stated his Shittah. This is true. He’s here for one reason only, to join the traitor as, “Pains in the ARSo.” Before I took over last July Chabad was winning. That’s because those two morons were in charge of the opposition to Chabad. That’s the real reason they hate me. I emasculated them by showing how easy it is to Checkmate Chabadianity.
It is a deeply disturbing fault of one’s character to attack someone continously because they dared to say pshat on a Rashi thats different than what their rebbe in cheder taught them (and they cant bring even one talmid chuchem to back up their version of the pshat) and because they posted complete meforshim in their original Loshen Hakodesh instead of not accepting misconstrued versions of random people on the internet.
To say I can’t say a pshat on Rashi because im a woman is so stupid. Teachers do it every day, even Chassidishe teachers in Chassidishe schools ( just pointing it out because you are Chassidish). They teach straight from Chumash, they dont have the version with prewritten pshutim from the some Chassidishe Cheder. In addition, they teach meforshim also, often straight out of seforim.
Stop having a sense of entitlement. If your arguments would make sense to me is one thing. You are simply angry that I do not accept that your arguments are valid. And THAT is what bothers you, so you hide under the cover of “women can’t learn”.
Neville you wrote, “(nor does anyone have a right to argue pshat differently than what he, Neville, was taught in cheder…unbelievable.)”
I was not, nor will you find a comment claiming I was. I’m just a guy who knows his place”.Are you now, after all that the attacks and arguments you made against me, actually saying that you didnt attack and argue with me the entire time that I can’t say that Rashi meant with the words “Yaacov lo mes” that he’s alive spiritually because supposedly “everyone, all of klal Yisroel” is taught pshat that he’s physically alive?
philosopher, I’m not going to reiterate for the who-knows-what-number time. So to make it really short, your arguments are wrong and you DO NOT know how to learn a Rashi.
Take it of (more likely) leave it. They way you interpret the way you want to, because of your wokish reasons – as I pointed out in my earlier post – are bordering on apikorsus and megaleh panim shelo kehalacha.
I don’t intend to reply to your posts about me/Neville being a bully, or any other repeat misinterpretations of yours (although I may not always be able to resist the temptation!), but I’m still here to discuss other areas of discussion on this thread.
It is a deeply disturbing fault of one’s character to attack someone continously because they dared to say pshat on a Rashi thats different than what their rebbe in cheder taught them
Philosopher, You are completely shameless.
Let’s all remember the FIRST POST that began the conversation about יעקב לא מת, a post by Philosopher:
“It is Lubavitche like you who twist everything out of context. For example when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie.”
There you have it. Philosopher began this conversation by viciously attacking all those who understand Rashi the simple way it is learned in the yeshivos.
The next post from Philosopher was: “But you have to be “not too smart” to even think that Rashi thought that Yaacov Avinu is still PHYSICALLY alive during his time…”
Thus it continued, with Philosopher mocking and deriding anyone who learned the commonly accepted pshat of Rashi and some other meforshim.
When those opposing her view began answering back in the same manner as her, she begins crying how mean it is to attack someone for a having different pshat in Rashi.
Who began this attack!? Shame on you!
I must agree with Arso about the pot and kettle.
To Philosopher
This new edition of the Three Stooges is trying to escape the fact that they’ve been checkmated. Our goal was to demonstrate that Chabadianity isn’t Judaism and we succeeded. Case closed. They can talk about Yaakov Lo Meis fin hant biz morgen. It doesn’t change the fact that Chabad is dead on YWN.
Menachem Shmei, you are right and I absolutely apologize for mocking people who learnt and understood that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive. At that time I didn’t know this was taught in many chedarim and yeshivas.
To Philosopher
There was a black and white movie called Dangerous Crossing which was set on an ocean liner. A plot was hatched to drive one oman crazy so that she’d jump overboard and kill herself and her husband would inherit her money. She was filthy rich and the husband was in on the plot. I thought of this because the Three Stooges are trying to play with your head and convince you that you’re stupid or worse. Last year, not long after I joined, a large contingent tried to intimidate me so that I’ll leave. Yankel berel showed up and backed me up and the lynch mob removed the noise from my neck. We see how rotten ostensibly Orthodox Jews can be. Rabbi Yisrael Salanter started the Mussar Movement because he saw that people could be careful with Kashrus, Shabbos etc put have disgusting Middos. The sick thing with these sub viruses is that they’re proud of their Rishus. There’s a special place in Gehinnom waiting for them.
To Philosopher
Many things are taught in Cheder and Yeshiva which we learn aren’t “true” as we get older and more intellectually sophisticated. It’s generally accepted that the six days of Creation isn’t literal. Other than followers of the Rebbe and Rabbi Miller this concept has fallen out of favor. And I’ve spoken to very big people who have confirmed that it’s not a viable position.So why do they teach six days in Cheder? It’s because children haven’t developed the scientific background to appreciate such nuances. So we teach them the “simple” Pshat and let them understand the truth as they develop. Unfortunately some people never develop and so they still think in their later years that Yaakov Lo Meis is meant to be taken literallyI may have apologized too quickly for “mocking people” for believing that Yaacov Avinu is alive physically in his kever. The truth is that i took at face value people who have lied to me about what I’ve said and what meforshim say. They may be lying as well about being taught that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive in his kever, I dont know. They never presented a name of a rav or talmud chuchem who says that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive in his kever while I have heard many droshos on the topic of Yaacov lo mes and never has any rov said that Yaacov is physically still alive.
What is the point of dragging this thread back to the topic of Yaacov lo mes when it has been chewed over on two threads and on many pages and no one who has opinions on what Rashi means with Yaacov lo mes will change their beliefs in any case? Whether you believe that Yaacov is physically alive or believe that he’s alive spiritually, it doesnt matter in the end because the LR is not comparible to Yaacov Avinu and is in any case not alive physically.
I absolutely apologize for mocking people who learnt and understood that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive. At that time I didn’t know this was taught in many chedarim and yeshivas.
I respect this. 🤝
Philosopher, I hope you will come to realize that when people attack Chabad (or any other group, for that matter), it often stems from a complete ignorqnce of something widely accepted in mainstream Torah understanding.
For example, when Qwerty thought it was a Chabad invention that עתיד החזיר ליטהר, or that Avraham’s tenth test gave (public) credibility to the first nine.
Or when Coffee Addict thought it was a Chabad invention that Rashi on Chumash often doesn’t align with Rashi on Shas, or the minhag of taking of shoes before kivrei tzaddikim.
This should make you think twice and three times, and do lots of research, before deciding to attack a Jewish group just because you weren’t aware of their ideas beforehand.
To Philosopher
You definitely should never apologize to these cretins. As I told you when you joined the thread these animals never acknowledge a single point that we make. It’s not possible that everything we say is wrong. Of course, they made up their minds from the start to ignore what we say because they know we’re on the side of truth, which is anathema to them. Boruch Hashem Chabad is dead on YWN.
philosopher: At that time I didn’t know this was taught in many chedarim and yeshivas.
I think a correction is needed. I was not taught in cheder that Gemoro or that Rashi, and I doubt that Neville or Shmei were either. We were, however, taught how to approach and learn a piece of Gemoro and Rashi, and based on that we came to the conclusion that Rashi holds that Yaakov is literally alive.
Menachem Shmei, while I’m wavering if an apology was warranted by me because I was I lied to on many fronts so I’m not sure what i should believe regarding what is taught in some chedarim about Yaacov lo mes, the truth is next time I won’t mock others’ beliefs if I dont know as a fact that they were not taught in that manner.
However, regardless of teachings and meforshim and ideas and minhugim and pshat, all these are irrelevant to the fact that one of the gravest sins is to worship idolotry. I have not changed my position on that because that is the core of Yiddishkeit. The bottom line is that one may not believe than anyone besides for Hashem runs the world, one may not pray to anyone besides for Hashem to help him and Lubavitche are doing all of that. There’s also issues with you believing the Rebbe has not died, that he never made mistakes, etc. You are turning your rebbe into a deity.
To Philosopher
I think you’ll find this interesting. There’s a Lubavicher named Yossi Farro who has made a name for himself by putting Tefilin on rich and famous Mechallels. He recently announced his newest target, Larry David of Seinfeld and Curb fame. When David heard about this he said he’d never do it but now there seems to be a possibility that if they meet his price he’ll consider it. This story is on VIN now. As you would imagine people expressed their opinion of that ausvorf until a Chabadsker shows up to declare that Mr. David is a holy yid and no one can criticize him because every Mechallel today is a Tinok Shenishba. I asked that fellow the following, “Is Alan Dershowitz a Tinok Shenishba?” I explained that he was recently.interviewed by Zev Brenner and said that when he was 29 and his 2 kids were born he decided to completely divorce himself from the religion. The guy said that according to the Steipler even Dershowitz is a Tinok Shenishba. The point is that Schneersohn announced that no sinner can ever be punished and so they make up any and everything to cover his Kefirah. Shicklegruber wanted to eliminate Jews. His Talmid Schneersohn wanted to eliminate Judaism.
I’m going to ignore the fact that Phil instantly retracted her apology and accept it as is. There’s a beautiful irony to the fact that over five non-Lubavitchers argued with her about this on the other thread and she doubled and tripled down. What finally got her to apologize was her nemesis, menachem Shmei.
Phil, to add to what Menachem just said, you’re probably familiar with these things happening when people go to criticize Chassidus, since you’re Chassidishe yourself. For example, people will bash Chassidim for davening mincha after shkiah when it’s meforesh in the Rema and Maharil that it is mutar.
Would those people knowingly bash the Rema? No, but they don’t know better, and they aren’t being careful about friendly fire.
To Philosopher
You’re very bright. You should know by now that it’s a waste of time to say anything to them. The Gemara says that Roshoim are dead even when in their mortal coil. This is because they are completely under the control of their Yetzer hora and so they have no free will. You know the truth. Just keep saying it.I understand that you’re a nice person but Yaakov knew how to out Lavan Lavan when he dealt with him. We can address our comments to each other and get the message through. Leave those three to their own devices. There is no hope for them.
To the group
Many or all of you have probably seen the cards that Chabad gives out supposedly to gentiles so that they’ll keep the Noahide laws..Last week I found a different card. Same size same picture of .Mendy. The message was as follows, “This is your long awaited savior. A prophet chosen by G-d to redeem the Jewish people.” This is Christianity Mamash. When I refer to Shmei as the primordial serpent I mean exactly what I say. His mission, as he sees it, is to steal Jewish Neshomas. In this thread he captured the two anal polyps. This is real. He won’t start with me. Right now Philosopher is the target for Yimach Shmei.
Arso wrote “I think a correction is needed. I was not taught in cheder that Gemoro or that Rashi, and I doubt that Neville or Shmei were either. We were, however, taught how to approach and learn a piece of Gemoro and Rashi, and based on that we came to the conclusion that Rashi holds that Yaakov is literally alive.”
Thank you Arso for saying the truth here. “The emes shvimt aroif” (the truth swims to the surface) as the Yiddish saying goes.
I retract my apology now. I personally didnt insult anyone for believing Yaacov Avinu is physically alive, but made light of the idea that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive in his kever, so I didn’t need to apologize for “insulting people” in any case. It is only later after I was personally attacked that I started defending myself and it got personal. Not only was i attacked, meforshim were misinterpreted and i was led to believe that “Yaacov being alive is the classic interpretation” of klal Yisroel. So who exactly is doing these “classic interpretations”? Some individuals in the cofferoom? None of the rabbonim and talmidei chachomim ive heard talking about Yaacov lo mes said that Yaacov is physically alive.
Anyway, as I’ve said earlier, it’s irrelevent to the discussion of Lubavitche ideology whether Yaacov Avinu is alive in his kever or not. So let’s get back to the point of this thread.
To Menachem Shmei
During those 3 weeks when you hid out in the bunker with your two Rebbe’s you know Schneersohn and the Austrian did they play chess and who won? As for your assertion that the Gaon and the dirt bag Posner said the same thing about Abraham’s tests. Total Chabad lie. Posner said that the first 9 tests weren’t actually tests, they were just examples of Av raham being a nice guy. What the Gaon said is that the last test was so overwhelming that it dwarfed the others, but of course the others were infinitely difficult. Checkmate you worthless liar.
“I retract my apology now.”
Again?“I personally didnt insult anyone for believing Yaacov Avinu is physically alive”
Why is it only called “insulting” when it’s directed at you? Do you realize how juvenile this sounds? And, yes, I know, now you’re going to say I just insulted you again. Spare us.If you want to say that calling us liars, purposely misrepresenting meforshim, etc. is not insulting because it’s just part of the discussion process, then fine, but don’t say that anything we’ve said to you in insulting either. You can’t have it both ways, and frankly we’ve been a lot more tame than you have.
“i was led to believe that “Yaacov being alive is the classic interpretation” of klal Yisroel.”
Again, it’s the classic interpretation of Rashi, not the classic interpretation of reality. If ARSo really is saying, as you seem to suggest, that we all just randomly came to the conclusion that Rashi is saying this on our own, then I would have to disagree with him. This is the “classic interpretation” of Rashi as I’ve said to you many times. You were “led to believe” correctly.
As for your assertion that the Gaon and the ……… Posner said the same thing about Abraham’s tests. Total Chabad lie. Posner said that the first 9 tests weren’t actually tests, they were just examples of Av raham being a nice guy.
No, he said that the first nine tests would be PERCEIVED to not be tests, as RASHI writes and is implied from the CHUMASH.
I explained this clearly before, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to repost an excerpt of that post (see my original post for many sources):
“After the tenth test of the Akeida, Hashem said עתה ידעתי כי ירא אלקים אתה – “NOW I know that your fear Hashem.”
The obvious question is, why only now? Wasn’t Avraham tested nine times before?
Moreover: The Gemara says (and it’s brought in Rashi), why did Hashem tell Avraham קח נא – “PLEASE take your son”? Because if Avraham would fail this test, people would say about the first tests לא הי’ בהן ממש – “they had no substance.”
Why would the first tests be worthless just because Avraham didn’t pass the last one?
One of the answers given is that since Avraham’s nature was מדת החסד, it would SEEM that he only passed the first tests because they fit with his nature. However, by passing the tenth test (which went against the מדת החסד), it became clear that he passed all of the tests only for the sake of Hashem.”
I retract my apology now. I personally didnt insult anyone for believing Yaacov Avinu is physically alive… It is only later after I was personally attacked that I started defending myself and it got personal.
Wow, you retracted your apology and went right back to being a shameless liar.
Let me reiterate what I posted yesterday:
You, Philosopher, opened the discussion about Yaakov lo mes, with this post:
“It is Lubavitche like you who twist everything out of context. For example when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie.”
Before anyone began attacking you, you posted another post:
“you have to be “not too smart” to even think that Rashi thought that Yaacov Avinu is still PHYSICALLY alive during his time…”
Here you are, attacking the many Jews (Lubavitchers and non-Lubavitchers) who understood the many meforshim that were posted differently from you.
Yet, yesterday you shamelessly proclaimed: “It is a deeply disturbing fault of one’s character to attack someone continously because they dared to say pshat on a Rashi thats different than what their rebbe in cheder taught them.”
כל הפוסל במומו פוסל
Pot calling the kettle black.philosopher, you really are full of yourself, aren’t you? Do you think it makes any difference to anyone that you retracted your apology. It just continues to demonstrate your self-importance when citing ‘proofs’ that all on this thread who are regular gemoro learners, and who have been through the system, have no idea how to learn a Rashi as well as you do.
Give us a break!
Mods
I haven’t looked at this thread for a while, but the sickening name-calling from Qwerty should not be allowed. Is there anyone moderating anymore? Or did the cofferoom turn into a smelly mud-slinging cesspool?
To the group
Some may be wondering how I can insult Rabbi Posner given the principle, “mir rett Nish oif em todt.” I’ll explain. Zalman Posner was a prolific Chabad writer . One of his books is called “Why Be Jewish?” It’s a very well written series of essays. In one such piece he discusses the Akeidah and states that it was the only test that Abraham passed because the other nine were just examples of Abraham being a nice guy. This is paf for the Chabad course. You will recall the Chabad fellow who said that the Rebbe was much greater than Moshe Rabbeinu. We have another principle called Al Pi Shnayim. So let me share another except from the book. This chapter is called “,Why Be Chabad?” Posner begins as follows, “There are 2 types of Orthodox Jews. The first are careful with Kashrus, Shabbos etc however they have no interest in any Jew outside of their immediate circle. We call such Jews insulated. In contrast we have Chabad who are the only Jews who understand and practice the concept of Kol Yisrael Areivim Zeh Lozeh.” Consider that. A respected Chabad Rabbi spewing calumnies against all non Chabad religious Jews. And even denigrating our Avos. Such were the teachings of the Rebbe. To convince his followers that they were the Master Race of Judaism. Now Shmei can try to lie his way out of this one, but we’re still waiting for him to answer the question that checkmated Chabad over a month ago.
Zalman Posner was a prolific Chabad writer . One of his books is called “Why Be Jewish?” It’s a very well written series of essays. In one such piece he discusses…
Qwerty, I don’t understand you. If you keep repeating the same “attacks,” why bother rewriting them every time? Why not just copy paste the same words you wrote last time?
Either way, I guess I’m more efficient than you. Since I already spent time formulating responses to you, I’ll just repost what I wrote previously.
he discusses the Akeidah and states that it was the only test that Abraham passed because the other nine were just examples of Abraham being a nice guy. This is paf for the Chabad course.
I answered this a few hours ago, showing how this is based on Rashi (“they would say that the previous tests had no substance”), and if you go to my earlier posts you will see that the Vilna Gaon (also a Chabad chossid?) says this exact vort.
Posner begins as follows, “There are 2 types of Orthodox Jews. The first are careful with Kashrus, Shabbos etc however they have no interest in any Jew outside of their immediate circle. We call such Jews insulated. In contrast we have Chabad who are the only Jews who understand and practice the concept of Kol Yisrael Areivim Zeh Lozeh.”
Now I’ll just copy paste what I posted last time you kvetched about this:
“I don’t have the book, but I doubt he wrote it the way you’re presenting it. Either way:
What you have here is simply a Lubavitcher explaining why he believes Chabad’s derech is unique and important. It’s no different from a Satmar chossid saying: “There are some Orthodox Jews who are Zionists, but Satmar follows the true Torah derech of opposing Zionism.”
If a Satmar chossid doesn’t believe that his derech is the truest, and instead says that being a Zionist is just as valid, then he isn’t really Satmar, because he doesn’t even believe in his own views!This doesn’t mean that every Lubavitcher, Satmar, Zionist, or Brisker thinks that they are personally superior. Each individual knows their personal faults (hopefully), but we believe we are following the best derech.”
I haven’t looked at this thread for a while, but the sickening name-calling from Qwerty should not be allowed. Is there anyone moderating anymore? Or did the cofferoom turn into a smelly mud-slinging cesspool?
There is clearly a lack of moderation in the CR these days.
This is especially demonstrated by the fact that when Qwerty joined originally, almost every post of his (iirc) was edited by the mods.
Now, he spews his vitriol without any filters (including disgusting, baseless smears that are היפך הצניעות, against Lubavitchers and non-Lubavitchers alike).Neville: If ARSo really is saying, as you seem to suggest, that we all just randomly came to the conclusion that Rashi is saying this on our own, then I would have to disagree with him.
No way! Chas Veshalom! What I said was that although we weren’t necessarily taught that piece of gemoro by melamdim, we were taught how to translate and understand Rashi, and therefore we know what Rashi means. That’s not random.
Well, since qwerty613 (aka “the whole tooth” on VIN) has chosen to bring his vendetta from there to here, then I’d like to set the record straight. I will note in advance that I haven’t read this entire thread and am otherwise not going to take sides in it.
In multiple interactions of mine with “the whole tooth” there, he’s talked himself into imagining that I’m “a Chabadsker,” even though I’ve explained numerous times that I’m not, and that all I’m doing is, as he put it there, “spouting Chabad theology.” In the particular thread to which he refers, I cited references to R. Tzadok Hakohen (Resisei Layla) that Hashem loves all Jews because of their inherent taharah (as expressed particularly via their bris milah), and to R. Kook and the Steipler that nowadays even people born into frum families and who went off the derech (like Alan Dershowitz) can be classified as tinokos shenishbu. I ask you, rabbosai and rabbanosai here: are any of these part of “Chabad theology”? Are R. Tzadok and the Steipler, at least, even remotely controversial sources (R. Kook I’m, of course, aware, was and is controversial)? And by the way, in that thread qwerty613/”the whole tooth” eventually (seemingly) conceded that those are valid sources, yet continued to snark that I must think myself “the smartest person in the room” and other such nonsense.
So perhaps this might give a fuller perspective on whom you’re dealing with here.
To Menachem Shmei
The only thing stupider than your “proof” is Schneersohn’s “proof” that every Jew will be redeemed by Moshiach. When Hashem said “Now I know etc ” He.meant that after the Akeidah there was absolutely no doubt that Avrohom would do anything to serve Him. In no way does Hashem’s statement detract from the previous tests. Posner was a jerk. And as for the Rebbe’s proof that all Jews will be redeemed. I was taught his Sicha. The Haggadah says we tell the Rosho that had you been there you wouldn’t have been redeemed. But at the final redemption, you will be redeemed. Total Am Aratzus. I guess ARSo is correct. If you have no formal Yeshiva education you come out a moron. That would explain the Rebbe’s idiocy since he never went to Yeshiva. Checkmate.
To Philosopher
Now you get a glimpse into Shmei’s duplicity. He claims not to have read the book yet he accuses me of distorting what the author wrote. He said that Abraham’s first nine tests weren’t tests.Rashi and Rambam and others have lists of the ten tests, but Posner disagrees with them. He holds that Avrohom was just being a nice guy. As for Posner ‘s statement that only Chabad cares about other Jews. Sorry he was not just praising Chabad he was putting down all other Frum Jews. One of the Chabad Rebbes said that one doesn’t elevate himself by putting others down. But Chabad even insults the Avos. They have no “Sheim”. Pun intended.
To Nope
Welcome to YWN where Lubavitchers and their allies come to lie and distort. You told two lies in this, your opening foray. First you never said that you’re not Chabad on VIN. What you said is that you refuse to divulge any personal information. Second you write that I agreed with the statement that one who knowingly abandons the religion is still called a Tinok Shenishba. That’s an outright lie What I said is that I’ll check with my sources and if they agree I’ll concede the point. Bli Neder I’ll have an answer this week. Btw if you’re not Chabad why don’t you tell us which group you’re part of?
To Nope
My source said he wants to see your quote from the Steipler that someone who intentionally rejects the religion is deemed a Tinok Shenishba and isn’t punished.
To Menachem Shmei. The only thing stupider than your “proof” is … When Hashem said “Now I know etc ” He.meant that after the Akeidah there was absolutely no doubt that Avrohom would do anything to serve Him. In no way does Hashem’s statement detract from the previous tests.
I’ll just repost what I wrote several times:
“Moreover: The Gemara says (and it’s brought in Rashi), why did Hashem tell Avraham קח נא – “PLEASE take your son”? Because if Avraham would fail this test, people would say about the first tests לא הי’ בהן ממש – “they had no substance.””.MODS, this is highly inappropriate.
If you call this “Yeshiva World,” it should be somewhat befitting for religious Jews to converse in a religious manner.
To the Moderators
Unlike the whiners who constantly plead with you to save them from me, I think you’re doing a bang-up job. Keep up the great work in defending Kovod Shem Shomayim. Let me share what I heard yesterday in the Chabad shul. One of the Rabbis read a letter from their god. He stressed the importance of eating Cholov Yisrael saying that Cholov Stam weakens the Emunah..Now I do eat Cholov Yisrael and it’s possible there is some metaphysical detriment to Cholov Stam, but isn’t it hypocritical for Mendy to declare he’s god clothed in human form and then warning his Chassidim about Chalav Stam?
And as for the Rebbe’s proof that all Jews will be redeemed. I was taught his Sicha. The Haggadah says we tell the Rosho that had you been there you wouldn’t have been redeemed. But at the final redemption, you will be redeemed.
You obviously have a very short term memory (one of your more minor flaws) so I’ll just repost part of what I answered you in the past:
“I will try to enlighten you:
The Rambam writes (Hilchos Teshuva 7:5) “וּכְבָר הִבְטִיחָה תּוֹרָה שֶׁסּוֹף יִשְׂרָאֵל לַעֲשׂוֹת תְּשׁוּבָה בְּסוֹף גָּלוּתָן וּמִיָּד הֵן נִגְאָלִין” – “The Torah has already promised that the Jewish people will do teshuva at the end of golus and immediately be redeemed.”
The Baal HaTanya (Tanya ch. 3 & Hilchos Talmud Torah) understands this to refer to every single Jew, as it states לא (בלתי) ידח ממנו נדח – “no one who was banished from Him [by his sins] will remain banished.”
So, when the Rebbe said every Jew will be redeemed and we should try to reach every Jew for teshuva, he was just following the Baal HaTanya.”
Now, your next ignorant “attack” will be that this goes against the Gemara in Sanhedrin which you completely misunderstood. Since I’ve already responded to that multiple times, I’ll just keep that part of my response handy, I’ll let you attack first.
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