Chabad Media Won

To Lostspark

Sorry to burst your bubble but I, for one, am not a Litvak. I’m a Galitziyaner Chossid, great einekel of Rav Meir Premishlan. Of course, I don’t follow Chassidic mores and neither did my father. What we see from this thread is that all rational G-d-fearing Jews are against Chabad.

ARSo: Yeah, I guess death threats are allowed here now. I think the CR can now boast the best freedom of speech on the entire internet.

“To Minuval
You must be beautiful”

Thank you!

“Last year someone in Menachem Shmei’s thread wrote that all Lubavichers agreed that Moshiach can’t come from the dead, but they did a 180 on Gimmel Tammuz. I confirmed this with one of my Chabad friends.”

So… you’re more okay with Chabad Meshichists than you were with stam Chabad before gimmel Tammuz? The whole point of the “they made a 180” argument is that show that even l’shitaso they didn’t really think Moshiach can come from the dead and made that up as a rationalization. It’s not to suggest they defined Moshiach problematically before. The whole point is that they weren’t a problem before meshichism.

“As for your quoting “Qwerty 613” do you not understand that this is an impostor?”

OK, I will admit that I didn’t notice that, but surely you realize that sounds just like the type of thing you would say. He’s a convincing impostor for a reason.

“Then again the Vilna Gaon said that the simplest answer is the truth, “You’re a moron in addition to being a sleaze bag.””

Ha, I really have no response to this; I just think it’s funny that you put the last part in quotes after the comma as if the Vilna Gaon actually said, “you’re a moron in addition to being a sleaze bag.”

“I, for one, am not a Litvak. I’m a Galitziyaner Chossid”
Oh, please no… Can we have a moratorium on everyone claiming to be Chassidish?

yankel berel: Is it true that there are 2 different Qwerty’s on this thread ?

I knew qwerty was out of his mind, but I didn’t realize he was schizophrenic!

@arso
I expected a serious answer …

To yankel berel

Don’t you realize that Benedict ARSo is beyond salvation? You probably have a history with him and he may have been a Mench once, but he’s way beyond the pale now. Nebach. I don’t need him to ask me for Mechilah. He needs to leave me alone and keep his stupid mouth shut.

“The Gaon succinctly said, “The simple answer is the truth.””

I’m guessing this is either a misquote or super out of context. We don’t always go like the most pashut explanation on everything, nor would the Gaon suggest that we should.

To the group

Benedict ARSo wrote in his last post, “As I have writing a number of time”. So again he claims to have been a high-level Talmud teacher. What yeshiva would hire a functional illiterate?

To Neville
Sorry that’s not a typo. That’s a deranged individual who’s so full of hate that he can’t think of write straight. I know he’s capable of properly expressing himself but his anger won’t allow it. The truth is that he’s angry at himself. He started attacking me in September for no reason stating that I was arrogant. He doesn’t need to apologize. If he just leaves me alone I’ll never say another word about him. In August Coffee addict started up with me. We went back and forth for about a week. He stopped and that was it. I actually dropped the Minuval this time because you finally learned to address a comment to me rather than write about me as if I don’t exist.

To Menachem Shmei

Welcome back Menachem. I miss you. Frankly it’s dull without you. Maybe I’m missing something but what’s wrong with what I wrote? Oh that I wrote of instead of or. That’s a typo like you spelling columnist wrong. And sorry that was no typo by ARSO. I know the difference. BTW I’m not a Jewish Press columnist nor have I ever been. I’ve been a contributor since I graduated dental school forty years ago. An occasional column, but mostly letters. For the last few years I haven’t been in there very often And that’s by my choice. I’m friends with the editor and owner of the publication. so I can get in as much as I want. I like to set the record straight. Unlike Lubavitchers Lower East Siders follow Rav Moshe and so we don’t lie.

To Menachem Shmei

I’m amazed that you continue lying to my face. When you got a letter wrong in columnist and I wrote of instead of or that’s a typo, But he bolloxed an entire sentence. You know full well that’s not the same thing. It’s quite clear that he’s become unhinged. But I admire how you and the Minuval try to stick up for the worthless traitor.

To Yashandik

Very well said. The last few weeks have been a waste of time as a number of individuals try to “prove” that I’m insane. You’re right. The only issue that matters is whether Chabad is a valid form of Judaism or Christianity and the answer is obvious.

“I couldn’t read the main protaganist, who will remain nameless, b/c he stooped to terrible language.”
Then maybe consider the possibility that he isn’t the “protagonist?”

“to me, it is irrelevant whether Yaacov Ovenu was really alive or not”
Agreed. All of us taking the traditional, literal approach don’t really care. It’s a hypothetical, lomdus thing to us. The people going berserk over that argument are the ones insisting that it’s symbolic and that all the meforshim who say it’s literal secretly mean the opposite of what they actually say.

To Yashardik

As I’ve mentioned in this and other threads, I have extensive dealings with Chabad so I can elaborate on your latest post. Yes, Chabad believes that their Limud Torah is better than all other forms of Limmud. And they believe that their form of Davening is better than all other forms of Davening. I could go on. The point is that Chabad believes that it’s the “Master Race of Judaism” an idea that the Rebbe took from a certain Austrian. This may not sit well with some, but it’s the truth. In 1978 someone asked Rabbi Miller(this question was printed in the FJJ) why Chabad thinks it’s better than all other forms of Judaism and he answered, “Every group should think it’s superior.” I’m proud to be a Lower East Sider but I don’t consider our brand of Judaism better than anyone else’s, and I’m certain that no other group thinks what Chabad openly espouses. That was a push-off answer by Rabbi Miller who always did that when people challenged his endorsement of Chabad.. What’s interesting is that this concept was in Chabad many years before this Moshiach insanity began as we see from the date of the question.

yashardik, welcome to the fray. Just a word of warning, don’t ever say anything that could even be construed as agreeing to the most innocent statement made by a Lubavicher on this thread – even agreeing to the state of the weather – or you will cause vitriol to be poured on your head!

The question is: why equate the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt”l with these lofty individuals?
This is the essence of the matter.

As I have written a number of times on other threads here, that is a minor part of the problem. It is not equating the LR to Yaakov Avinu and Moshe Rabbeinu, it is also twisting and deliberately distorting maamarei Chazal and Rishonim to suit their agenda. For example, in Sanhedrin 98b it says that Mashiach can be someone who died (which, again as I have illustrated numerous time, can ONLY be referring to Daniel Ish Chamudos) therefore it’s ok to say that the LR will be Mashiach.

Another example, the Rambam says that Mashiach יכוף – will coerce – all Yidden to keep the Torah, but that doesn’t actually mean coerce, it means convince/encourage, which is what the LR was doing.

to me, it is irrelevant whether Yaacov Ovenu was really alive or not

It’s true that it’s irrelevant to the original/main topic of this thread, but it is still important to weed out those who have the need to interpret meforshim to fit in with their own mindset, as that, in essence, is along the same lines as the aforementioned Lubavichers.

@Yashardik
They are USING hasidut and everything else to impose their rebbi on the world.

Not the other way around.

It is obvious to anyone who observes them from close.

If their rebbi would tell them to stop hasidut learning.

Do you have a have amine that would not listen to him ?

For sure they would not.

So what is their goal ?
their rebbi or hasidut?

Clearly it is their leader …..

To ARSo

Right, you were attacked for saying that the weather in CH is pleasant. Let’s tell the truth. You showed up on this thread on or about Sept 1st with two valid challenges to Chabad. Menachem Shmei told you how wonderful you were and said that he completely agrees with what you wrote. You bought his malarkey and then pledged your allegiance to him so that when the subject of Yaakov Lo Meis came up you stated that you concur with Shmei that this Chazal should be accepted literally. When you were asked to name a non-Chabad Rabbi who agrees with this interpretation, you refused arguing that you’re too big a scholar to ask anyone else. At the end of the discussion, you did a 180 and said that you don’t actually believe that Yaakov is still literally alive. It’s for this and other reasons that you are reviled in this thread. So keep lying to yourself that everyone else is to blame. No one except the serpent Shmei will agree with you and he’s just using you as a weapon against me. What a hopeless fool you are.

Neville, I feel bad for your family members… you enjoy squabling constantly with people who don’t agree with your opinions.

“Neville, I feel bad for your family members… you enjoy squabling constantly with people who don’t agree with your opinions.”

Again, I’ve never once mentioned my personal belief on that matter. You’re the weirdo who can’t get over the fact the the standard Orthodox understanding doesn’t go like your home-baked interpretation.

In any case, you are dodging the point I was making. You claimed you only care about these things due to your holy jihad against Chabad, yet clearly it goes deeper than that since you have spent considerable time arguing these matters with non-Lubavitchers as well. I’m guessing you were once at a point where you did not hate Chabad, then turned on them under the naive understanding that all of your qualms with Orthodoxy were just with Chabad. It is now very important to you to keep up that version of reality by accusing random frum yidden of being Chabad propagandists because the thought of mainstream Orthodoxy also having these “wrong” shittos is too much for you to handle.

I get under your skin because I actually point this out and because I’m willing to say the following that the kiruv professionals coddling your feelings won’t say: love it or leave it. And, if you must stick with it, keep your wacky shittos to yourself. Nobody is actually interested in hearing your “unique outsider” perspectives on anything, and if you want what’s best for you kids you should let them believe in this stuff at face value as they are taught in yeshiva. It turns out fitting in is actually kind of important in life.

Let’s talk about “the pot calling the kettle black”.

1. I was ATTACKED for daring to argue with apikorsim who believe that their rebbe runs the world. In fact, a special thread was opened just for that, to attack those who dare argue with “Menachem Shmei the Apikorus” which they defended as if he’s a Gaon and arguments with him “make the arguments against Chabad look stupid”.
2. The attackers attacked my reasoning that Rashi meant with the words “Yaacov lo mes” that he is alive spiritually, not physically.
3. I did not find their reasons behind their counterarguments to have any validity., it did not change my mind. In fact, I found the meforshim some of bought to “bolster” their argument to do just the opposite.
4. They ended up resorting to lying about what I said and demeaning me that as a woman I dont understand how to learn pshat.
5. Now, after yashardik said a valid point about getting sidetracked, and yes, I excused myself why I got sidetracked, BUT I agreed with Yashardik that it’s ridiculous to be busy with irrelevent topics, these two clowns, Arso and Neville decided to attack me again.
6. Clearly, they have issues. Instead of getting back to the topic at hand, they decide to squabble with me like little children simply because I don’t agree with them. They are bullies, period. Everyone knows bullies have low self-esteem.
7. I can only conclude that the topic of Lubavitchers believing the LR runs the world, believing that their rebbe is everywhere, that you can pray directly to him and that he will help, and all other apikorsishe ideology, is of little to no importance to them, otherwise they would stop with their stupid argument and talk about the core issues.

To Philosopher

I’m glad to see that you’re standing up for yourself but it’s a waste of time because Benedict ARSo and the Minuval zennen umenschem (pardon my poor command of Yiddish). Boruch Hashem we’ve as accomplished the main point which is to expose Chabad as a false religion. I would like to add a point to the discussion of Yaakov Lo Mes. Now we “know” that Eliyahu Hanovi comes to every Bris. What does that mean? Who knows? What does Yaakov Lo Mes mean? Who knows? What we know is that the Rebbe can’t be compared to Biblical figures or to Neviim and Tannaim etc. He’s just a dead Rabbi case closed.

philosophere, unlike qwerty’s posts, which I do not even read, I do read yours, but I just don’t have the patience to keep on repeating where you go wrong and minunderstand. But I will point out a few things in short.

1. When I say that according to Rashi Yaakov Avinu is alive, I mean alive in a physical sense. You said – totally wrongly – that Rashi does not hold that. So you are definitely arguing that Yaakov Avinu is not alive.
2. Yes, you are a woman, and you should not be arguing with those of us who have been yeshivah-trained from a very very young age.

Arso, your saying that I said that Yaacov is not alive because I said he’s not alive physically, only spiritually, is MISCONSTRUING what I’ve said.

As for what Rashi means with “Yaacov lo mes”, I dont have to agree with you and Neville, your arguments proved nothing more to me than your ridiculous assumptions that i have to accept your arguments because you are men and I’m a woman. That is absolutely preposterous.

qwerty > why mainstream Jewish media covered the Kinnus Hashluchim but Chabad never publicizes events like the Agudah Convention.

they are not different from others. Grand Daf Yomi Siyum did not include anyone outside of Agudah shitah, despite all words about klal Isroel. Same message – we are descendants of amoraim, others are not.

To Philosopher

I think that you accidentally stumbled on the root cause of the Minuval and Benedict ARSo ‘s antipathy. I joined YWN in July 2023. At that time there were several anti-Lubavichers doing battle with Shmei and others but they were getting nowhere. I showed up and, like you, used the straightforward approach, to wit, Chabadianity is not Judaism. Instead of appreciating my posts I was castigated until yankel berel came to my defense. There are at least two reasons even the supposed anti-Lubavichers despise me. One is that I’m effective and they had no idea how to deal with the primordial serpent. Second I’m not yeshivish and they’ve bought the malarkey that only a Gemara Kup can win arguments. I think they dislike you because we’re on the same side. The only side. Hashem’s side.

Qwerty, a gemorah kup no one on here has. But they are awed and overwhelmed by Shmei’s bombardment of meforshim many of which I’ve come upon on their toiras lubavitch online. I posted many of these meforshim in its entirety, here and on the other thread, and they speak for themselves that they do not say what Shmei (and the Lubavitche) claim they say.