Chabad Media Won

To Minuval

Why would I or anyone have a problem with what Philosopher wrote? It’s Judaism 1.0.

Neville, do you know what Yiddishkeiteven is? Because if what I said regarding tzaddikim giving brochos is supposedly “checkmate/avodah zora” then you know less than an am haaretz.

To the enemies of Hashem in this thread

You try to blame the moderators. To borrow from the Bard, “The fault lies not in the moderators but in ourselves.”

“Why would I or anyone have a problem with what Philosopher wrote? It’s Judaism 1.0.”

I am so psyched for Judaism 2.0 to come out.

To Philosopher

The Minuval has no interest in Judaism, he just wants to act like a jerk. Ignore him and hopefully he’ll go away.

To Menachem Shmei

To your credit you don’t call me a liar. To your discredit you’re so determined to disprove whatever I say that you don’t take the time to discern the facts. From 2003-2009 I attended a YI which had a militantly Chabad Rabbi. It was from him that I learned most of what I’ve posted here(his son -in-law is the fellow who said that the Rebbe is greater than Moshe Rabbeinu). During those six years I gave a weekly Dvar Torah at Shalosh Seudas. One Shabbos I mentioned the Holocaust and this Rabbi interrupted the speech telling me that the Rebbe said this subject can’t be discussed. In July 2009 I made up my mind to leave the shul because of this Rabbi’s abuse and so I made my last speech about the Shoah knowing he’d go ballistic and he did. In the Chabad shul I attend I never express my views and I get along great with everyone. It’s called being a Mensch something you know very little about. Interesting tidbit. This Erev Yom Kippur I davened Mincha at the YI. After we finished the Rabbi asked me for Mechilah. Of course I gave it to him. You and the others want to portray me in the worst possible light. Unfortunately for you Hashem knows better. It’s only in a thread like this one where I can and do express my views on Chabad, views which are shared by my Rabbonim.

If Yonah were to lurk into this thread, he would surely demand everyone to do teshuva, whether they are in EY or in Ashur.

To yankel berel

I’d like to comment on your post even though you addressed it to Philosopher. Using the Avos paradigm there are four ways to interpret information, to know that it’s true to believe it, to accept it and finally to reject it. I would argue that we only know that which Hashem gave us as part of His natural law. So I know that one plus one is two efc. These are facts which are universally accepted. As for belief, I believe in Hashem and His Torah. To believe means that I can offer cogent proofs to their veracity. Then we’ll skip to rejecting. If one rejects aor changes, as the Rebbe did, any aspect of the Torah, Written or Oral, he’s a Kofer. But let’s discuss acceptance. I accept that Yishai lived until the age of 400 but I don’t believe it, therefore I won’t present arguments to validate that Chazal. At the same time I don’t reject it, so I recognize that at this juncture I can’t understand what it actually means. Similarly I’ll accept that Yonah survived for 3 days w/o oxygen but I don’t believe it. Of course if Hashem decided to perform a special miracle He’s certainly able to do so. This is my Shittah developed in conjunction with several great Rabbis. We reject the Rabbi Miller approach of, “Accept what I say or you have no Cheilek in Olam Habo.” If you or others would like to discuss this in a civilized manner I’m happy to do so.

To Menachem Shmei

Again you twist what I and Philosopher are saying. My Shittah, and apparently it’s similar to that of Philosopher is that Hashem created a world which follows natural law. Therefore we try to minimize the occurrence of miracles which violate natural law. Obviously I agree that Hashem is capable of transcending natural law and so I would never reject such a possibility. Rather I try to explain things without resorting to such types of miracles. Let me, of course make it clear that I didn’t invent this approach. It’s in line with Rambam. That’s the Rabbi, whose work you Lubavitchers make a Siyum on yearly, but reject what he said about Moshiach. Total hypocrisy. I will also add that the Shittah of rationalism is in line with all my Rabbonim and so don’t accuse me of inventing my own religion as did your lying Kofer god.

@qwerty
The Ibn Ezrah is in Jonah 2:1 as far as I remember. Although he doesn’t say it exactly the way I quoted him.
Have a look at the Malbim, at Radak and Metsudot.
Think it is the Malbim who clearly references the lack of air.

@philosopher
Think it was you who mentioned the issue of Jonah being in such pain [not be able the breathe] for such a long time , for 3 days ? [Same about Yaakov forever]
Cf. Rashi and other commentaries who reference hazal who were medayek in the psukim that in the beginning he was inside a male fish, and Jonah did not see a need to pray, so the male fish spit him out and when he was inside the female fish , he was uncomfortable so he started praying.
It couldn’t have been too uncomfortable inside the male fish , notwithstanding the lack of air.

To Philosopher

If you follow the wiles of Menachem Shmei he has two agendas. The first is to depict us as insane idiots. Obviously classic projection. But there’s another tack, more pervasive and insidious and that’s to make “crazy the new normal.” So why is this? Chazal teach that a person doesn’t sin unless he benefits from it. Clearly it’s in Shmei’s interest to promote insanity, but why? Chabad’s greatest enemy is Rambam because he represents normative Judaism and normalcy. As a rule he eschews the phantasmagoric. Obviously this is anathema for Chabad and so they have to discredit him while at the same time pretending to honor him. Let me give you a clear cut example. This past Pesach I attended the Seudas Moshiach at my Chabad Shul. The Rabbi spoke about that day’s Haftorah which says that the wolf will lie down with the lamb etc. He quoted Rambam who, of course, said it’s allegorical but then he said that Ramban says it’s literal and Chabad follows Ramban. Which leads us to ask, Why do they study Rambam? The answer is that they don’t study anything. Their Torah is simply finding quotes to prove their psychosis and so it’s a Toeivah, no different than what the original Christians did.

To yankel berel

Very well said. Another reason the Rebbe wouldn’t let his Chassidim mention the Shoah is that it leads to the obvious question, “If the Rebbe runs the world why didn’t he stop it?”

To Philosopher

We see that the Rebbe is greater than Yaakov Avinu. He’s able to leave his box on Mondays and Thursdays to get Shlishi at 770.

He quoted Rambam who, of course, said it’s allegorical but then he said that Ramban says it’s literal and Chabad follows Ramban. Which leads us to ask, Why do they study Rambam?

This again highlights Qwerty’s misunderstanding of normal study and dialogue, which seems to result in a limited grasp of how to approach learning Torah.

Qwerty, it seems that, in your mind, every discussion becomes a litmus test: Are you with me or against me? If someone is on your “team,” you’ll support whatever they say. If they’re not, you’ll dismiss or challenge their points and try to “checkmate” them, as if an intellectual conversation is just a game of chess.

But that’s not how real discussions work. One can agree on some things and disagree on others. You can find nuance in someone’s position and still respect their views despite some differences.

How much more so in Torah study, which is rooted in truth and peace. It is entirely possible to hold the Rambam in great esteem, and to emphasize studying his works, even if one doesn’t follow his rulings in every instance.

To yankel berel

I’d like to add to what you wrote. According to the Rebbe it’s Assur to say that the six million were killed because of the breakdown of European Jewry. The Rebbe also cancelled the concept of Gehinnom for sinners. As far as he was concerned all Jews except for one are the same. Therefore Rav Moshe and Ed Koch are equal. The only exception, of course, is the Chabad Nasi. Guess who that would be? Shmei tries to keep the discussion focused on nonsense like Yaakov Lo Mes to avoid these truths from coming out. Every Yid is a Big Tzaddik is an outgrowth of the Rebbe’s heresy.

Just decided to pop in to ask this question (not really following the flow anymore, but I see it’s still going)

What’s up with the non leather shoes, and walking out backwards. I’ve been to countless kivrei tzaddikim (רשב״י, רמב״ם, ר מאיר בעל הנס etc) and I don’t think breslovers have that rule (I have friends that went for Rosh Hashanah)

I understand the rule of אדמת קודש but isn’t this going a little TOO far?

To coffee addict

It’s just another example of their deification of the Rebbe. Chabad has their own Ushpizin whom they honor rather than our traditional seven. They have nine . The Rebbe is number nine and they honor him on Simchas Torah. Since there’s no longer any inyan of Sukkah he’s free to travel all over the world.

phil: there’s a saying “if someone doesn’t believe any stories of Chassidishe Rebbes

This is Rambam about Agadot. What Rambam thinks about stories of Chassidishe Rebbes is unknown to me.

To yankel berel

Again you’re absolutely right. The thing with Chabad is that they have no concern for the truth. Moreover they take pride in lying so you can’t get them to concede to anything. We know that at 120 we have to answer to Hashem. They have a different mindset, if you catch my drift.

To coffee addict

Shmei is hiding in his bunker. He finally realizes that his cause is lost. He’s afraid of yankel berel because he knows he can’t attack him like he does to me and Philosopher.Baruch Hashem the real Jews have exposed the truth about Chabadianity.

To Philosopher

I’m glad you mentioned Manis Friedman. He has enough cache to speak the truth. The same for the Jacobson brothers. They know that the Rebbe spouted Kefirah but they won’t say anything. They’re very smart guys and they could spin it in a way that it almost sounds Kosher but they refuse.

To yankel berel

I like to be fair. Shmei is bright. He knows that he’s lost. Obviously he can’t admit it so he’s laying low hoping that some opening develops. He thought he could turn you against me and Philosopher. When that failed he disappeared. Moreover, the traitors who sided with him left the thread.

To the real Jews

Sue Fishkoff wrote a book called “The Rebbe’s Army” about 20 years ago. She interviewed prominent Lubavitchers male and female. Once she spoke to Rebbetzin Rivka Slonim who happens to be a fine person. She told Ms Fishkoff that when she was a little girl she went to sleep away camp and they taught her, “From 770 we are marching out.” She said the song made no sense to her because the Rebbe was totally spiritual. I understand how difficult it is for Chabad to face the truth about their leader but it’s very clear. When he was 3 years old he had a dream that he’ll rule the world and everything he did in his life was to make that Mishigas a reality.

To yankel berel

You’re obviously right. Let me share another story.More than a dozen years ago I attended the Jewish National Retreat. That’s Chabad’s annual Convention (it’s a story as to why I went). It ran Wednesday through Sunday. On Shabbos afternoon I attended a lecture but I don’t recall the “Rabbi”. He related the following, “There was a Yemenite boy, about 20 years old who wanted to become religious so he went to one of those heh, heh, heh Kiruv Yeshivas in Israel. The first day day he was there they told him that you get rewarded for every Mitzvah and punished for every sin. And when thep punish you they put you in hell and burn you with coals. The boy went through this abuse for a week and finally told the Rabbi to go to hell. Then he came to Chabad and he found love. And now he’s happy.” Obviously Aush Haftorah doesn’t use such an approach but it’s true that there’s reward and punishment. Chabad’s Rabbis laugh it off because Schneersohn told them that he eliminated Gehinnom.

To Menachem Shmei

I can’t speak for the others but AFAIC, if you admit that we’re right I’ll welcome you back to actual Judaism. You have my word no checkmates whatsoever.

To ARSo

So now you want to return to our side? Okay. I’ll “forget” what you did and welcome you back. Let me share something that Rabbi Dovid Hollander told me, “You can’t understand a Rosho, because you’re not a Rasha.” Chabad obviously will never admit defeat. I’ll give you a Moshol. Someone started a business and was introduced to an investment advisor. The fellow told him to put aside a small amount every month and trust him to invest it. They decided on $200 a month. It went very nicely. The businessman was making between 7 and 8 percent a month. After 20 years he had accumulated a small fortune, but the advisor told him not to take anything out until he retired or he’ll get killed with the taxes. Of course he agreed. One day an emergency arose and he needed to tap into the fund. You can guess the rest. He had been scammed from the start. Do you know how hard it is to deal with that. Shmei’s bright. He knows his religion is a lie but he can’t deal with it so he looks to convince people like you to join with him in his fantasy. And he pulled it off. I saw what he was trying and I warned you not to fall for it but you accepted his blandishments. He tried to do the same to yankel berel but it didn’t work.

Qwerty, people get intimidated when someone sounds like he knows what he’s saying despite the person who appears knowledgeable is clearly contradicting the Torah, our chachamim and mesorah and despite their ideology being incredibly dumb (… the rebbe running the world and being alive after he died, etc…) . But when lies are repeated as facts over and over again and they “use sources” to make it seem as if meforshim support their kefira, after a while it doesn’t sound like nonsense anymore.

And that is the danger of Chabadianity, their seemingly innocent movement that is accepted by Chareidim despite their ideology being total a”z.

To always

That story was clearly a lie. Chabad loves taking shots at Aish Hatorah whenever possible. Is it true that Chabad does good,? Definitely and I encourage them but until they drop the deification of the Rebbe we must fight them.

To Philosopher
Most Chareidim associate Judaism with rituals, a nice esrog, fancy shtreimels so they won’t even listen when the subject of theology comes up.

To the moderators

You did a wonderful job allowing the truth to win out. Yasher koach.

yb, the klal of shtika kehoda’s doesn’t apply in cases when the person who remains quiet does so because he knows that he won’t be able to convince others of his view. So if a Lubavicher is quiet in the fact of criticism, it doesn’t mean he agrees with it.