Chabad Media Won

qwerty, keep piling on the insults. They work in my favor and against you. Although, you probably won’t be punished for your ravings because you seem to be a lunatic.

philosopher, qwerty and anyone else interested: Show me one post where I said that Yaakov Avinu is alive. I said that Rashi et al said it, and that one is not allowed to reject Rashi based on one’s logic.

Then, once you have given up trying to find me saying that Yaakov Avinu is alive, show me one post where I have disagreed with the Maharsha. Even the Maharsha himself says that Rashi holds that Yaakov Avinu is alive (!) but he argues with Rashi. He is allowed to argue with Rashi because he was much closer to him chronologically (sorry qwerty, you probaby don’t know what that word means because it contains the word ‘logic’ which you cannot comprehend) and he was a tzaddik gamur who wrote with Ruach Hakodesh. We, on the other hand, can’t reject Rashi or the Maharsha, and we have to resort to the rules of שבעים פנים לתורה and אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים. The fact that none of us can understand what is meant by Yaakov Avinu being alive must not bring us to say that it can’t be literal if Rashi says it is.

yankel berel to me: You write that someone who argues on rishonim and meforshim about pshat in gmara is apikorsus.
Not necessarily so.

I thought I was being clear, but perhaps I wasn’t, so let me try now.

If you argue on a Rishon or one of very early and well-accepted Acharonim based on the fact that other people of equal stature to them argue, then there is nothing wrong, as long as you agree that אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים.

If, however, you reject a view of someone of that stature because it makes no sense to your small brain, then you are an apikorus.

Do you agree with that?

At any rate, here we are dealing with a third type of person: someone who rejects the existence of a view because they reject that view. That is, Rashi did not say it because it doesn’t make sense. If someone would make a shevua of that type it would be a shevuas shav because clearly Rashi does say it!

At least Benedict ARSo answered our challenge… There is no way he was ever a Rebbe because such an arrogant jerk wouldn’t last a day. He’s probably an escepee from a psych ward… Oh yeah he’s a high level Torah teacher. What a joke. Boy you can say anything on line if you don’t believe in Hashem.

Mods!

Although I strongly disagree with ARSo on most Lubavitch matters, I respect him as a level-headed poster and contributor to the CR. This inflammatory vitriol by Qwerty is completely out of hand and unacceptable.

In the past, Qwerty’s posts were ALWAYS censored, and we didn’t know why. Now that the (new?) mods have stopped censoring posts, his disgusting rhetoric can be seen for all.

If we wanted a fully uncensored forum where we can attack each other like children in a disgusting fashion, we could use Twitter instead.

Mods, please consider this. Thank you.

Although I strongly disagree with ARSo on most Lubavitch matters, I respect him as a level-headed poster and contributor to the CR.

Menachem, thanks for the compliment! And the same is true in the reverse. I disagree strongly with Lubavich views that you have posted elsewhere, but you’re certainly level-headed and not a looney.

And thanks for reminding me that qwerty used to be censored a lot, and that we didn’t know why.

I too what has happened to the mods…

To philosopher

Yasher Koacha. We’ve finally broken that anal polyp. For the past two weeks Benedict ARSo has been pounding away that he agrees with his Rebbe Shmei that Yaakov Avinu is alive because he follows Rashi’s Pshat. Now, realizing that he’s cornered, because he knows that no actual Rabbi , Chabad Christians don’t count, believe that Yaakov is alive, he does a 180 and says he never said Yaakov is alive. Yes, this is someone s yeshiva would hire to teach our precious children.

To the mods

You’re doing a great job. Don’t pay attention to that anal wart.

To the group

The primordial serpent calls ARSo a level headed poster. That tells you all you need to know about the psychosis called Chabad.

To ARSo

I praised Lostspark for his anti Rav Shach post..This demonstrated the truth about Chabadianit as opposed to Shmei’s BS.. Congratulations, you’re even sicker than he is.

To the group

Let me share a story. I grew up on the LES in the sixties. At the time there was a large Chassidic element in the neighborhood and Yeshiva Shlomo Kluger was there(it’s now in Borough Park.) My mother sent me there through the fourth grade but it was a bad fit because I didn’t speak Yiddish and I wasn’t particularly Frum. I did however excel in English studies so at the start of my last year there a classmate approached me, “There’s a new boy in the class and he’s going to beat you in English (he didn’t) and he’s a real Jew” Almost 60 years later the memory of that encounter is still vivid. ArSo said he’s a Chassid. From his despicable posts I can tell that he’s just like my classmate. A nasty, worthless bigot and a walking Chillul Hashem. Benedict ARSo is a self loving Jew but he hates everyone else.

For the past two weeks Benedict ARSo has been pounding away that he agrees with his Rebbe Shmei that Yaakov Avinu is alive because he follows Rashi’s Pshat

I think ARSo’s point was that he doesn’t follow any pshat about if Yaakov is physically alive or not. He doesn’t have an opinion about Yaakov’s death, and why should it make a difference to him anyways?

He is just quoting the opinions of Rashi vs Maharsha.

He has no reason to take a side.

I can say the same for myself. I don’t know if Yaakov is alive; who am I, a tiny ant, to put myself in between a machlokes of great rishonim?
What I DO know is what the rishonim themselves hold, and I will not accept anyone misinterpreting their opinions.

Which opinion is right?
אלו ואלו דברים אלקים חיים, תשבי יתרץ קושיות ואיבעיות

Q1, So if Yaakov is alive, even though we cant understand in what way, how does it help the discussion here about Chabad? Q2, Where does Chabad get the idea LR can be alive? Q3, What source do they have that its even possible in our days? Q4, What source is there for LR specifically?

You’re right, the discussion has nothing to do with Chabad.

It started when Philosopher exposed her ignorance to all by opening this discussion with the following post:

“It is Lubavitche like you who twist everything out of context. For example when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie.”

This is reminiscent of the time when Qwerty thought that chazzir becoming kosher when Moshiach comes was some kind of Chabad “kefira” 🤭.

Qwerty, the same thing happened to Menachem Shmei. First he was arguing with me that Yacov wasn’t buried. When I showed him that the posuk says that Yacov was buried, he backtracked. The same thing is now happening with Arso. First he argues on the entire thread that Yacov is PHYSICALLY alive because “Rashi says so”. Now he’s backtracking that he never said it. Well, Rashi never said that Yacov’s guf is alive, that was Arso’s own interpretation of Rashi. And he got caught when I told him to ask a reputable rav or talmud chuchem if Yacov Avinu is physically alive in his kever. I’m still waiting to hear back from him with whom he spoke to about Yacov being physically alive in his kever…

To Philosopher

It’s a good thing that those two low lives formed an axis of evil. Makes it easier for Hashem to dispose of them. Many years ago Rabbi David Hollander zl told me something very powerful, “Don’t try to understand a Rasha because you’re not a Rasha.” Let’s see what he meant. Perhaps Anne Frank’s most famous quote is, “In spite of everything, I still think that people are good at heart.” Obviously she was wrong. There are different types of people and we have to recognize that some are trash. And there’s nothing that can be done about them. They can’t be rehabilitated. The garbage that Chabad’s dead god promoted that he’ll save every Jew implied that he’ll get them all to do Tshuvah. Ah nechtegi tug. He couldn’t straighten out his two lost brothers. In Nitzavim we read that the esoteric is for Hashem but we have to function in the world of Nigleh. That can be summed up by Hillel’s pithy comment, “That which you find offensive don’t do to others.” But Molotov and Von Ribbentof don’t care about the principles of basic human courtesy. Chazal tell us that to be respected one must give respect. Does the high level Gemara teacher understand that? The Shmei’s of the world can quote their Kabbalah BS but his and his cohort’s Torah is a Toeivah. And I mean exactly what I say. And the MOD’s agree with me Boruch Hashem.

First he was arguing with me that Yacov wasn’t buried. When I showed him that the posuk says that Yacov was buried, he backtracked.

Of course, you never pointed out a SINGLE post where I insinuated that Yaakov wasn’t buried. Not a SINGLE one. Because I NEVER said that.

The same thing is now happening with Arso. First he argues on the entire thread that Yacov is PHYSICALLY alive

I haven’t seen a SINGLE POST where ARSo said that Yaakov is physically alive. He said that RASHI holds that Yaakov is alive.

If you don’t provide the posts where ARSo said I said those things you claim we said – you are a LIAR.

To philosopher

According to Benedict ARSo the Rebbe is worthless because he never went to Yeshiva. Instead he went to college with Freier Jews and Goyim. It’s fun to watch that moron try to talk his way out of the messes he causes by his own stupidity.. I knew a Rav who was also a doctor. He was brilliant. One summer he had an internship at the Rockefeller Institute. He told me that the people there were geniuses but most were moral reprobates and liars. The Ikkar for Hashem is a sincere desire to find the truth.skmething which Menachem Goebbels and Benedict ARSo have no interest in.

To Philosopher

Now Shmei is pulling a Bill Clinton. ARSo never said that Yaakov is still alive. All he said is that Rashi says so and if you question Rashi you’re an Apikorus and/or an idiot. There’s a new jerk entering the fray. That would be Neville Chamberlain. His ploy is to split us up because he sees how seamlessly we work together. Never underestimate the power of Sheker. It looks like coffee addict wants to start up again. Boy will he be sorry

Coffee addict, after all this you think that I dont know what Rashi says? I don’t think any of you understand what we are arguing about here. We are arguing what “alive” means. Is Yacov avinu’s guf still physically alive or is Rashi talking about alive spiritually?

Unlike many of you here taking the pesukim of the Torah pretty lightly the way you keep on harping about what Rashi says and disregard that it says later in the Chumash that the brothers of Yosef saw that their father DIED, the great Rabbis understood that the Word of God cannot be contradicted. Rashi does not contradict the Torah. He does not say that Yaacov’s guv stayed alive, Yacov is always alive in a spiritual sense. Or as the Gemarah states, that Yacov is alive through his descendants. Also, according to another mefoiresh Yaacov not dying can mean that part of his soul lies dormant in the body. There are many meforshim on “Yaacov lo mes”. But nothing can contradict the Torah which says clearly that Yaacov died.

Menachem Shmei, I remember arguing with you about Yaacov being buried. But perhaps I remember that wrong. I’m not going to reread the thread again to see if I am wrong here so I’ll say that if you didn’t argue about it then it’s my mistake. Sorry.

About Arso himself not saying that Yaacov is physically alive; if you say that you have to believe that Yaacov is physically alive because Rashi is (according to Arso) saying that Yaacov is physically alive otherwise you’re an apokiros as I was called for not believing that that is what Rashi is saying, and arguing the entire thread that that is what Rashi means, you can’t go hide under that cover now and say, I didn’t say it, Rashi says it. Because you did say it. You said it because you think that Rashi said it. I dont believe that Rashi means that he’s physically alive. Arso and you believe that that’s what Rashi says and you argued on that point, period.

First, thanks Neville and coffee addict for reiterating what both Menachem and I have been trying to say. Maybe they’ll listen to you. On the other hand, maybe you’ll be found guilty by association and be called some interesting juvenile epithets.

Which leads me to the following.

I suspect that qwerty is mentally unbalanced, and depite my disgust and distaste for him, I don’t want to be the one who causes him to go over the edge and do who-knows-what. Therefore, I have decided that until he stops posting inflammatory stuff I will totally ignore all his posts.

Of course, he will now say that he has checkmated me (I wonder if he’s ever even seen a chessboard…) and that that is why I am ignoring him. But – I really hope he can understand something as simple as this; I have my doubts – if qwerty desists from his infantile rabid style, I will bli neder deal with his posts. If he continues to be rabid, even if it is not me he is attacking, I will pretend he does not exist. I don’t want to be the one straw that breaks his mental state and leads him to harm himself or others chas veShalom.

As to philosopher, please read what Neville wrote to you. לא בחנם הלך הזרזיר אצל העורב

@ARSo

@philosopher

@menachem

@qwerty

Looked at this whole Yaakov Lo Met business.
I simply cannot understand the whole hullaballoo.
Rashi on humash is medayek that since it does not say vayamat [he died], rather vayigva [he expired] by yaakov. that tells us yaakov did not die.
Rashi in ta’anit 5B says that although yaakov was embalmed , the embalmers did not notice and thought he had died. [nidmeh la’hem]

So, we do know that ‘something’ happened to yaakov.
What is that ‘something’ ?

It says vayigva, vaye’osef el amav.
It’s not death.
But it is so similar to death, that the embalmers were tricked into believing that it was actual death.

It is my belief that embalmers are in close proximity of the body they are embalming.
If there was a heartbeat and / or breathing, they ‘d notice.
Seems that there was no heartbeat and no breathing , which normally would be an indication of death as we know it.

Nevertheless since RASHI tells us that there was no death , we have to say that there was , as a nes, especially for yaakov ‘s sake, a new situation whereby there was a measure of life in yaakov’s body although his vital signs did stop.

Thats why the passuk says vayigva , he expired and not that he died.
So, he did not need to breathe after his expiry , nor did his heart need to beat.

But the source for yakov avinu being considered as “not died”, is strong – A passuk in humash.
To say the same for any other mortal, you will need a source at least as strong.

So can we say that the object of “wrongful deification” and “wrongful messiahfication”, also did not die ?

That should rightfully be called “wrongful expiryfication.”

Hope the above will succeed in putting things into perspective.

================

Bearing in mind that I saw it brought down from Rav Chida in his Shem HaGdolim quoting sources that RASHI’s peirush on Ta’anit is not from RASHI himself, and is mistakenly meyuchas to RASHI.

To philosopher

When ARSo started attacking you he made it a point that he isn’t misogynistic because his wife is and his mother was a woman. Well now that you and I have emasculated him so is he.

To the mods

Menachem Shmei reminds me of the Midrash in which Avraham Avinu destroyed all his father’s idols but one and left his ax in it. We know the rest. Shmei believes in a dead Kofer instead of Hashem but now he begs you guys to protect his deity by censoring or kicking me off the thread. The Torah calls idolaters Meshugah. Shmei is actually bright, but Schneersohn learned well from the mustachioed one and his followers have no ability to think rationally.

To philosopher

After reading Benedict ARSo’s latest post I realized that I have to get this in before I suffer a nervous breakdown. We now know what Benedict did after the Yeshiva kicked him out on his ARSo he became a psychiatrist. My mistake, actually he spends most of his life on a couch. Be that as it may the Axis of evil wants to revisit Yaakov Lo Mes. Of course we know why. So the points that need to be made are simple. Chabad believes that the Rebbe voted Hashem out of office and is now god. Therefore they daven to him, and believe he runs the world. Mucb more can be said but it’s clear that Chabadiam is a religion which has little or nothing to do with Judaism and it’s adherents are idolaters or passive acceptors of idolatry.

There is a Sefer called רש״י כפשוטו (it’s a Chumash with rashi and an explanation on rashi) that brings a Gemara in bava basra that says it doesn’t say מיתה by דוד המלך because his son Shlomo followed in his footsteps and the same could be said here

Coffee,

1. It is not Rashi’s derech in his pirush in chumash to be understood based on an obscure Gemara. He writes his pirush assuming a child will read it and understand it at face value.

2. Even if you want to say that this is Rashi’s intention in his pirush on Vayechi, it is bipashtus not able to be his intention in his pirush on Taanis where he adds the part of נדמה להם etc.

The main discussion in this thread is regarding Rashi’s pirush in Taanis.

[And, as I have demonstrated in an earlier post, Rashi’s pirush on chumash need not match his pirush in Shas.]

Yankel berel, your conclusion is that there is a “measure of life in Yaacov’s body”.

Yosef and his brothers would not bury their father if his guf would still be physically alive. As it says in the posuk that he “expired”, Rashi himself says the posuk says “expired but not died” . What does it mean that Yaacov expired? Yaacov is alive but his body expired. A little further in the parsha it says that the brothers of Yosef saw that their father DIED with the loshen “mes”.

Rashi does not contradict any posuk in the Chumash and therefore he did not write that Yaacov’s guf is physically alive.

In conclusion, Yaacov’s guf is not alive in a physical sense. But his guf is alive spiritually by Yaacov’s soul being dormant in his guf. In that sense it would be “a measure of life in Yaacov’s body”.

To the group

Menachem Shmei refers to a Gemara as “obscure.” He’s a chip off his Kofer god/Rebbe rejecting any Gemara that’s against his atheistic agenda. Good job coffee addict looks like Shmei’s been checkmated. Look, the moron is under a lot of pressure trying to cover up for his buddy’s ARSo.

To philosopher

I’d like to suggest a compromise. It’s possible that there was something unusual about Yaakov ‘s departure from this world and Rashi was alluding to it, but there’s no doubt that he’s no longer alive according to the rational understanding of being alive. The main thing is that we have to stay focused on the prize and that’s eliminating Chabad.

Menachem Shmei refers to a Gemara as “obscure.”

Obscure (not well known) for a child who just began learning Chumash.

To philosopher

I think I understand how Chabad idolatry began. There’s this Posuk in the Torah that the Rebbe rejected because it’s “obscure”. You may have heard of it, “Anochi Hashem Elokecha.”.

philosopher, you keep lambasting Shmei because he is, in your words, trying to prove the authenticity of his Avoda Zara. Either he is or he isn’t, but you know very well that I am most definitely not trying to prove anything from Rashi in connection to Lubavich. So why on earth do you keep taking that tack, and not addressing the issue?

Rashi says something. You had a question on it. It must be a good question because the Ramban asks and answers the question that you asked. But if you keep on harping about that question you are clearly ignoring the Ramban. Why?

Not to mention that there is the Or Hachayim and the Rif on the Ein Yaakov. And, as I have mentioned, the Maharsha, while he definitely disagrees with Rashi, nonetheless says that Rashi says it and means it. You keep ignoring those gedolei olam, and then you take offence when I, and others, say you are spouting apikorsus!

And you have still not have not been able to cite one post of mine or of Shmei’s where we say that WE believe that Yaakov Avinu is alive. What I DO believe is that Rashi says it.

No, instead you resort to juvenile statements like, “I’m still waiting for you to tell me which Rabbi you asked.” How juvenile. I told you I wasn’t going to ask anyone as the above mentioned meforshim are good enough for me. Yet you REFUSE to deal with the Ramban.