Chabad Media Won

To the group
As I wrote the other day I will not address anything said by Shmei. He can write til the cows come home. My decision is final.

Qwerty, you attacked Rabbi Posner for saying a vort of the Vilna Gaon, you attacked the Rebbe for saying the opinion of the Bal HaTanya and Rav Yochanan, you attacked Lostspark for posting lashon haZohar, etc. etc.

Now you are silent!?

Is this where I’m meant to say checkmate?

To ARSo

You’re a better man than I Gunga Din because you got Menachem Shmei to agree with you. Unfortunately, I don’t have that power over him. I asked Shmei to acknowledge that Seichel and Cunin are idolaters because if one even gives a hint that he believes that a human has power this is idolatry and/or Amalekism. True to form that liar changed the subject and twisted himself into a pretzel trying to prove that the Rebbe didn’t reject the Gemara in Cheilek. And he certainly rejected the Gemara which said that there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes.

I’m sorry, I didn’t read Qwerty’s post fully just the part addressed to me 😂

To coffee Addict

It’s all good. We’re on the same team defending Hashem’s honor and so we’re brothers.

To philosopher

I understand your frustration. You will never get through to them. We debate with Lubavitchers if the Rebbe is alive. The real question is whether Shmei and his cohorts are actually alive. When one loses his ability to think he no longer has free will and so he’s more dead than alive. The Three Stooges can take their shots at me but they’re just adding coals to the fire that’s waiting for them.

The difference between qwerty and you is that he can give honor to those people he disagrees with as you see he still calls your rebbe Rav

Calling a tzaddik “lying kofer last-name” sounds less respectful than calling someone by his last name three lines after writing “Rav” about him.

I asked Shmei to acknowledge that Seichel and Cunin are idolaters because if one even gives a hint that he believes that a human has power this is idolatry and/or Amalekism.

Would you say the same about the Minchas Elozor, Noam Elimelech, Rabbeinu Bachya, Tanya, Yerushalmi and Zohar?
Because they all said things that may sound like AZ ch”v to the untrained ear (as I have asked you over a dozen times, yet you always lie and pretend that you don’t see the question).

True to form that liar changed the subject and twisted himself into a pretzel trying to prove that the Rebbe didn’t reject the Gemara in Cheilek.

Changed the subject? You called a talmid chacham a kofer r”l over ten times over the past year, including yesterday, so when I finally proved that you were wrong, you call it changing the subject!?

trying to prove

Trying!? The proofs were as clear as day. So clear, that your only response was “I will not address anything said by Shmei.”

And he certainly rejected the Gemara which said that there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes.

This too was answered already at length.

@lostspark
Its RAV Shach , not Shach.
Please read the haskama of the Rav miBrisk.
[btw read all other haskamoth of rav mibrisk and compare the language]

Clear as day – if R Shach would have approved of the late leader of habad , this very same R shach with all his exact same characteristics would have merited at least “harav hagaon’ by the habadi’s .

So much for emet ….
And shows the worth of habad issued titles ….

.

To the group

I said bli Neder for a reason. Shmei is arguing that Rabbi Pozner and the GRA said the same thing. That’s right but they didn’t mean the same thing. I’ll explain. I’m anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe but I’m not an anti Semite. Candace Owens is anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe and she is an anti-Semite. When a person makes a statement it must be understood in the context of the speaker. The Gaon was trying to explain why the Akeidah was greater than all the previous tests combined. He wasn’t C”V minimizing the others he was just lauding the 10th. On the other hand Pozner was insulting Avraham Avinu..How do I know this? In an earlier chapter of the book he wrote that there are two kinds of Orthodox Jews The first keeps the religion with all the Mitzvahs however they’re insular meaning that they only care about themselves and those in their close circles. In contrast we have Chabad that is the only Orthodox group which understands and practices the concept of Kol Yisrael Areivim Zeh Lazeh and so they devote themselves to.helping other Jews. This is the Chabad mantra the belief that they are better than other Jews. Since we see that this was his attitude it’s clear that he was putting down n Avraham. And we can say the same thing about Cunin and Seichel. They have the Chabad Chazakah of being idolaters so we don’t look to be Dan Lkaf Zechus.

qwerty, I understand your feelings, but am not sure I understand your argument about Avraham. How’s caring about other people an insult to him, given that he was arguing to save Sdom, etc?

“Calling a tzaddik “lying kofer last-name” sounds less respectful than calling someone by his last name three lines after writing “Rav” about him.“

I’m sorry I took Lostspark’s quote (probably from Wikipedia) and thought he wrote it

“never wrote that Yaakov avenue is G-d litterly. I wrote you should learn the maamer הקבצו תרסח, after learning that and understanding it, you won’t have complaints on the Rebbe and R shlome cunin. They said the same things as the gemarah.
All you guys do is say well the gemarah is obviously not litterly but cunin means literally as if the rebbe runs the world and not hashem ch”v.“

Once you got here you can say the same thing about the rebbe being משיח however everyone in chabad will say THAT is literal you can’t pick in choose

Additionally they obviously forgot an explicit משנה in אבות which says

חכמים הזהרו בדבריכם….

I’m anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe but I’m not an anti Semite. Candace Owens is anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe and she is an anti-Semite. When a person makes a statement it must be understood in the context of the speaker

Well, there it is, exactly what I’ve been saying all along. Just as Candace Owens hates Jews and therefore tries to twist any potentially suspicious Jewish statement, Qwerty does the same with Chabad and a tremendous tzaddik (r”l). It’s not the content of the statements he’s reacting to, but the fact that it came from Chabad.

Qwerty’s bias is so extreme that he’s willing to ridicule a vort from the Vilna Gaon simply because a Lubavitcher repeated it.
Qwerty wrote about the Vilna Gaon’s vort: “that’s absolutely false” and that it “…downplayed Avraham Avinu’s greatness by writing in his book that the Akeidah was our Founder’s only true test which is obviously false. Leaving his homeland and sending away Yishmael were examples of Avraham going against his Middah of Chesed.” Not only is Qwerty attacking the Vilna Gaon here, but he’s also attacking Rashi on Chumash and the Gemara (that Hashem begged Avraham to pass the last test “lest it seem that the first tests had no substance” “שלא יאמרו הראשונות אין בהם ממש”)!

In an earlier chapter of the book [Rabbi Posner] wrote that there are two kinds of Orthodox Jews…

I don’t have the book, but I doubt he wrote it the way you’re presenting it. Either way:
What you have here is simply a Lubavitcher explaining why he believes Chabad’s derech is unique and important. It’s no different from a Satmar chossid saying: “There are some Orthodox Jews who are Zionists, but Satmar follows the true Torah derech of opposing Zionism.”
If a Satmar chossid doesn’t believe that his derech is the truest, and instead says that being a Zionist is just as valid, then he isn’t really Satmar, because he doesn’t even believe in his own views!

This doesn’t mean that every Lubavitcher, Satmar, Zionist, or Brisker thinks that they are personally superior. Each individual knows their personal faults (hopefully), but we believe we are following the best derech.

Your own self-comparison to Candace Owens is so perfect: She accuses Jews of “supremacism” because we dare to believe our religion is greater than all others and that Jews have a unique connection to G-d. Meanwhile, she obviously believes the same about her own religion. If she didn’t think her faith was superior, she’d convert!

Conclusion: You interpret Chabad’s statements negatively because you hate Chabad. You hate Chabad because of how you interpret their statements. This is nothing but circular logic.

I think we’ve found the perfect definition of sinas chinam. I don’t use that term lightly (I acknowledge it’s often misused) but in this case, I think it fits exactly.

Qwerty amazing point, now read everything else in context
The gemarah that says only 1 of 500 will be there when moshiach comes, comes after a Mishnah that says every new has a portain in the world to come, the amid before says a person is zoche to olem haha as soon as he answers amen. Etc. learn the sugya
Atzmus in a guf comes be hemshech why one can ask a rebbe for brachos and tikinum – just like the mega shim on the medrash that says Yaakov is G-d

Rashi said that Yaacov Avinu expired, but did not die. He never said that he is alive physically!!! He said he expired but did not die which meforshim have many explanations what it means (one mefoiresh is that he lives on through his children)

Philosopher, don’t parade your ignorance like a badge of honor.

The difference between us is that you are making random claims about the pshat of Rashi, while I brought Rashi’s lashon and sources and the various mefarshim.

What I said is not unique to Chabad.
Anyone can open up an artscroll Gemara (Taanis 5B) and see for themselves in the footnotes: The classic understanding is: Rashi understood it literally (נדמה להם שהוא מת אבל חי היה – it seemed to them that he died, but really he was alive), while other mefarshim (such as Maharsha) argue and say that the Gemara refers to his children, or the like.

If you don’t believe me, open a Artscroll.

I’m asking all Lubavitche here to clarify what their beliefs are regarding their rebbe. Do you believe ……. Yes or no? It’s not an essay question. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.
You Lubavitche are trying to deflect these questions by bringing “sources”, stories and writing about everything and anything other than what you beliefs are regarding your rebbe. But the fact remains that you are being evasive, you are not being truthful about your beliefs. One has to be stupid to not see what you are doing.

Philosopher,

I have a question for you:

Do you believe Hashem has partners?

Yes or no?

Don’t give me any essays or sources. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.

P.S. If you answer “Yes” – I’ll call you out for believing in shituf (שיתוף), which is literally AZ for a Jew.
If you answer “No” – I’ll call you out for denying the Gemara (נדה לא,א. קידושין ל,ב) that there are three partners (שותפין) in creating a human: G-d, father and mother (which teaches us to fear our parents like we fear G-d).

To philosopher

Hopefully you now understand why there can be no discourse between the real Jews in this thread and the Three Stooges particularly Shmei. They believe in nothing other than the Kofer who commutes between Queens and 770. Nebuch they’ve crossed the 50th level of Tumah and they will never be redeemed.

To coffee addict

Your point is well taken but you’re not dealing with Chachamim you’re dealing with that lying Stooges.

To always ask

I addressed your question above. Pozner wasn’t praising Abraham’ s kindness. He was putting him down. That’s common practice among Lubavitchers. I mentioned the punk who said that the Rebbe was greater than Moshe Rabbeinu
His father-in-law said that the Vilna Gaon was a nobody compared to the Baal Hatanya. The only Godol they don’t insult is Rav Moshe but they tell stories about how he accepted the Rebbe as his master.

To philosopher

I’m impressed. You actually got Shmei to make a definitive statement. He officially stated that Yaakov is alive and well at 3k plus years. Of course you should write that down in pencil because he may deny having said that tomorrow.. However Shmei doesn’t believe that Yaakov is god. So he accepts Rashi literally but rejects the literal meaning of the Gemara. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. His Kofer Rebbe also chose which Gemaras to believe and which to reject..I think he flipped coins to make those decisions

Menachem Shmei, Rashi himself points to the word in the posuk ” ויגוע” that he expired, he never challenges that. This is what Rashi says: ויגוע ויאסף. וּמִיתָה לֹא נֶאֶמְרָה בוֹ, וְאָ”רַ יַעֲקֹב אָבִינוּ לֹא מֵת . Rashi never said that he did not expire and that Yaacov Avinu was PHYSICALLY alive after he expired. Rashi mentioning that the Torah does not say מות, does not mean that Rashi meant that Yaacov’s body did not expire. We have numerous meforshim explaining what Rashi meant and none of them, perhaps with the exception of “meforshim shel Chabad “, none of these meforshim claim that Yaacov Avinu’s body did not expire.

The “source you mention to prove your point”, Taanis 5B, you leave out the part where R’ Yitzchok, who is the one bringing up that Yaacov Avinu did not die, expands on that that Yaacov will be saved as his seed is alive and will be saved (from captivity). The classic understanding of this gemerah is that Yaacov Avinu is alive through his descendants. Never does the gemorah say that Yaacov Avinu is alive physically.

This is the power of avodah zora, to spin and misinterpret things so that supposedly there is “proof from the sources” in the validity of your worship of your idol.

Of course not. It was from a golf ball.

Arso,

The true Golf War was at the end of the last Trump-Biden debate. I think there was one casualty: Old Joe.

Menachem shmei, absolutely Hashem doesn’t have partners in running the universe. Hashem created the world in a specific way that…….
This is the danger of Chabadianity. Just like Christianity, they mistranslate or misinterpret

Philosopher,

I didn’t interpret or misinterpret anything.

I just wanted to demonstrate that it’s silly to demand that someone only answer Yes or No to a complicated philosophical question. Judging from the length of your post, you have clearly proven my point.
Thank you.

Menachem Shmei, I asked you specific questions like “does Chabad believe the rebbe runs the world”, etc. These are specific questions of your beliefs which warranted specific yes or no answer answers .

If you would ask me if I think anyone besides for Hashem runs the world I’d answer you unequivocally, a one word answer “no”. However, you challenged me on HOW I can say that Hashem doesnt have partners when the Gemarah “clearly” says that He does. That needs an explanation for an answer, it is not a one word answer on my specific beliefs, but an explanation of what the Gemorah actually means because clearly tried to misconstrue the Gemorah to make it look as if the Gemorah says that Hashem has partners in running the world which is false, that is not what the Gemorah means.

To philosopher

You’re always spot on. Another difference between Chabad and the original Christians is that they’re totally Dovuk to their dead, lying getchke. With the Christians I know it’s minhag avoseihem biyadeihem. Psychos like Shmei can’t imagine a world in which he’d have to believe in Hashem so his false bravado is simply a mechanism to cover up his realization that the end is imminent. Now he’s trying to figure out how to squirm out of the Candace Owens question. The good news for Shmei is that he’ll be spending a lot of time with his god at 120.

Menachem Shmei,

1. You are arguing over nothing. I’m not even going to respond to your (non)rebuttal. This is what the Gemara says, its as clear as day that the Gemorah (and the meforshim say that it) means that Yaacov is alive through his seed. בָּתַר דִּסְעוּד אֲמַר לֵיהּ, הָכִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַעֲקֹב אָבִינוּ לֹא מֵת. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְכִי בִּכְדִי סְפַדוּ סַפְדָּנַיָּא וַחֲנַטוּ חָנְטַיָּיא וּקְבַרוּ קַבָּרַיָּיא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִקְרָא אֲנִי דּוֹרֵשׁ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְאַתָּה אַל תִּירָא עַבְדִּי יַעֲקֹב נְאֻם ה׳ וְאַל תֵּחַת יִשְׂרָאֵל כִּי הִנְנִי מוֹשִׁיעֲךָ מֵרָחוֹק וְאֶת זַרְעֲךָ מֵאֶרֶץ שִׁבְיָם״, מַקִּישׁ הוּא לְזַרְעוֹ: מָה זַרְעוֹ בַּחַיִּים — אַף הוּא בַּחַיִּים.

2. Here’s what you wrote: “…Based on that hekesh he proves that just as they are alive, so too he is alive even though facts seem otherwise. Rashi (on Gemara) explains that he was only buried because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive.” Do you really not see that you are totally contradicting yourself!!? You claimed the entire time that Rashi said the Yaacov Avinu was PHYSICALLY ALIVE and now you say that Rashi “explains THAT HE WAS only BURIED because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive”. So now you are saying I said said all along that his body expired as the posek says and not physically alive!!! Over what exactly are you still arguing with me on this? Unbelievable!

To the group

I figured out the misconception that Schneersohn is god. When he came to America he was told that he needs his G.E.D.
So he got it but we see from Seichel that Lubavitchers put “o”s where other vowels are called for. This is definitely the right Pshat and I have tons of sources to prove it.

To the group

In Parshas Shoftim it says that with two or three Adim we kill the Meis. But if he’s a Meis why should we kill him? So the subject of that passage is idolatry and we see that an idolater is dead even before he’s killed. When I read the sewage that Shmei calls Torah it’s nauseating. Chabad Torah is a Toeivah, but it’s coming to an end

To coffee addict

They don’t hate you as much as they hate me but you’re getting there. Shkoyach. I thought Lubavitchers loved all Jews. Yes and Islam is the religion of peace.