Chabad Media Won

And I know Lubavitcher that do this (because that is what they’re taught)

I literally wrote that: “No (credible) source at all, and I think it’s ridiculous. I know some people who do this, and they were never able to explain this strange custom to me”

@always

Firstly ,This has nothing to do with smiha . R chaim kanievsky did not have smiha and certainly [over]qualified as a talmid haham al pi hahalaha.
Secondly , the principle of Muflag behohma bedoro is found in shulhan aruch hilch kvod rabo in YD .
Not my invention.
RCV is not gadol meraban shmo .
like the all the other rabanim stretching back to the time of the gmara [cant think of any exception right now] who were not and are appropriately named as r or rav or by any other nickname eg the berdichever or by their sefer , the ktsos, or the goan .
Main point is whether its solely by their name or not.
This is not a matter of ‘sensitivity’ rather a matter of halacha.
in any case thanks for your consideration.

Shmei had a chance to prove he’s Jewish by calling out Seichel’s idolatry.

Sure!
Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)

Seichel stated more than once that he takes the Gemara which says that Yaakov is god literally.

Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)

To coffee addict

So I guess the Rebbe is Casper the friendly ghost. No that can’t be. He’s still alive. But of course they also think that Yaakov. See how nice it is when we work together.

I’m sure HaRav Gadol HaDor David Berger questions the authenticity of the Zohar to promote his chuzpadik crusade against Lubavitch. I attribute it to the spiritual corruption of limud l’chol in the MO system, which Baruch HaShem is on its way out soon.

To Lostspark

You left out Dr. and Shlita in addressing that Tzaddik. I guess you’d also demean Rabbi Schachter who might be the Godol Hatorah in the world today.

To the group

We add Lostspark to our list of Lubavitchers who openly subscribe to the Trinity although he has a different set than Seichel. Rabbi Miller quoted the Alter of Sladboka, “The first law of the Torah is don’t be a fool.” It’s only Chabad that takes Chazal out of context because they need to convince themselves that they can find proof that the Rebbe is god. Btw if anyone runs into Shmei send him my checkmate.

> opened an Igros Kodesh and was excited to find a letter that said “ברוקלין נ.י. שלום וברכה

Not a joke. I was at the Kosel shortly before my wedding, and a suspiciously looking individual said he is collecting for a yeshiva. Skeptical, I asked what yeshiva. He named the yeshiva from a mid sized town my kallah was from.

Btw if anyone runs into Shmei send him my checkmate.

Says the one who begs me to condemn Seichel’s “many statements” yet can’t even point to one specific post.

There are true stories where Jews receives blessings from
Rabbi Mendel Schneerson, and the blessings DID NOT WORK.

These true stories are NEVER mentioned by Chabad.

To square root

The Rebbe had two brothers, one psychotic and the other an atheist. The Rebbe couldn’t straighten them out so Chabad thinks they can make Jews in Wyoming and Alaska Frum. Rabbi Miller said that if you leave Brooklyn you leave the Torah. That’s an extreme statement and I disagree with it but if one moves to places where there’s no legitimate Judaism he’s lost and the nonsense that Chabad is saving them is just that nonsense.

lost > I attribute it to the spiritual corruption of limud l’chol in the MO system, which Baruch HaShem is on its way out soon.

You see if you don’t have limudei chol, then you write run-on sentences where you thank Hashem, but only He understands whether “which” applies to corruption or limud or MO system. Gemora in Bavas spends many dafim trying to figure out how to understand documents written by amei haaretz, you don’t need to add to them.

Logic is struggling to find its way to lostsparks mind .
He attributes his ‘hutspadig’ so called crusade against habad to …. limudei chol in MO circles.
Without which there would not be habad criticism ….
—
Got some news for lostspark.

98% of Orthodox Jews view habads ever changing and developing theology re mashiach and rebbe cult with a ‘left eye’ .
That ranges and is equal in all different colors – from those espousing a total ban on chol [like satmar] to those who totally embrace chol [like MO].

The approach generally is one of indulgent tolerance for harmless folly.
But folly it most definitely is , in everyone’s eyes.
Everyone, besides the blind, the deaf and the brainwashed [in short, habad people], that is.

We can all rest assured when we hear the uncensored real reaction of non habad people [behind habads back] re habad theology:

there is no connection whatsoever between criticism of habad “pretsel theology” and limudei hol.
.

Rabbi Sacks said that the Rebbe studied Hitler and declared that Hitler tried to kill all the Jews so he’ll save all the Jews.

The Rebbe never “studied Hitler”. You should never make up historical facts about ANYONE, how much more so about a tzaddik like the Rebbe.

Rabbi Sacks was actually just saying a nice vertel in a speech, these are his words: “I’ve speculated on this, and I thought this – maybe I’m wrong, but I think not – because he was the first Rebbe to become Rebbe after the Holocaust. And how can you redeem a world that had witnessed Hitler? And the Rebbe did something absolutely extraordinary; he said to himself: if the Nazis searched out every Jew in hate, we will search out every Jew in love.”

Of course, Qwerty insists on changing around this vertel to disrespect the holy tzaddik.

Hitler taught his people that they were the master race. Lubavitchers openly states that they are better than all other Jews.

Qwerty, have you been reading David Duke’s Jewish Supremacism lately? Or maybe you’re a secret follower of Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes?

[BTW, no Lubavitcher thinks he is better than all other Jews. I know my personal chesronos and I assume many Jews are better people than me in many ways. We do think that the Lubavitcher derech is the best derech, or else we wouldn’t follow it. I assume that you believe that your derech is the best derech.]

The Rebbe had two brothers…

Your hate and chutzpa grows from day to day.

we have Lostspark who gave his version of the Trinity today. But Shmei’s too busy to find it.

Aha, so you couldn’t find a single post from Seichel. So you were מוציא שם רע on him. A simple, low level liar. Wow.

Now you want me to condemn Lostspark’s post today.

All I saw was Lostspark quoting a Zohar (at least the way that it’s quoted in all the chassidishe seforim from Talmidei HaBesht), which you probably couldn’t even read.

No, I will not condemn that.

If you actually find a post that supports what you said, let me know (date, time, post number), and I will gladly condemn. If not, you’re admiting (again) to be a lowly liar.

Yet you claim to have a “love for truth” more than any of the other posters here. How embarrassing!

To the group

Menachem Shmei denies that Lubavitchers think that they are the “Master Race” of Judaism. Let me provide two anecdotes. One of Ron Hirsch’s daughters in laws(He’s a noted philanthropist) was raised Chabad. I asked her if she was taught in yeshiva that Lubavitchers are better than other Jews and she confirmed it. Second story. About 20 years ago I asked a Chabad Rabbi(I didn’t know much about Chabad at the time) how he would feel if his daughter married someone from Lakewood (she was 9 at the time.) He told me that the question was ridiculous because Lubavitchers are the highest form of Jew. As for Shmei’s response that Rav Shach had troublesome offspring. That’s not unusual so did Rav Moshe and a host of others. The reason I make a point of it is that the Rebbe bragged that he would save every Jew.If he couldn’t help his own family how is he going to save Jews in the hinterlands? As for Rabbi Sacks statement. I heard him say that exact quote on Zev Brenner is the Rebbe studied Hitler. It’s possible that in writing he said it differently. Once again Shmei tries to depict me a a liar and he’s checkmated.

“Qwerty, maybe instead tell us about the son and grandchildren of Rav Shach?“

Rav Shach lamented on it and said because he didn’t sing zmiros on shabbos

He’s not perfect (and he knew it) as opposed to the “משיח”

We have Aug 27 8:47 PM and Aug 21 4:39 pm.

Lol. You’ve been calling Sechel an עובד ע”ז all this time because he quoted Gemara in two posts!?

You wrote: “In Bereishis Hashem says, “Come let us make man in our image.”:At face value this is clear-cut idolatry and many have used that literal meaning to support their idolatrous views. But those who accept Hashem Echad realize that the verse isn’t actually saying this. So we go to the Gemara in which Hashem called Yaakov “Kel”. If you accept Hashem Echad then you understand that it doesn’t mean that Yaakov is literally god. Good. Hope you’re still with me. Now here’s the problem. Seichel, with all his Chassidus does take that Gemara literally”

How in the world do you know that? He only brought the Gemara to prove to you the same point that you yourself said as well, that just because a holy statement can be interpreted by stupid people as idolatry, that doesn’t make the statement possul!

How do you know that Sechel understands the Gemara any different than you!?

All he does in those posts is QUOTE it!

This is just like you calling Lostspark a kofer for writing an Aramaic phrase from Zohar!

As for Rabbi Sacks statement. I heard him say that exact quote on Zev Brenner is the Rebbe studied Hitler. It’s possible that in writing he said it differently.

If indeed Rabbi Sacks said that, I apologize for accusing you of making it up.

The point remains that Rabbi Sacks never intended that the Rebbe did some “Hitler study,” rather he was saying a cute vertel about how after the Holocaust, the Rebbe showed love for every Jew like Hitler (l’havdil) showed hate.

To the group

As anyone could predict Shmei brushed off my proof that Seichel is an idolater. Let’s take a closer look. I’ve called Seichel an idolater since he introduced the Trinity
Did he deny t? No. So Shmei will say that he didn’t object because the charge is preposterous..But wait. When I’m called a liar I challenge such defamation. Therefore Seichel silence is Hodah. Or maybe not. And when philosopher and others brought up Cunin Shmei argued that there’s no clear-cut proof that he meant the Rebbe and not Hashem..And so he’s only a possible idolater. And the Rabbi in my shul who said that the Rebbe and Hashem are protecting us may have meant that Hashem does most of the Shmirah and according to the Gemara Miktzas Kikulo. So he’s only a possible idolater. Here’s the problem Sofek idolatry is idolatry Mamash pun intended. A Sofek as to whether Hashem runs the world is called Amalek. This is my final word on the subject. Ok one more word. Checkmate

“Menachem Shmei denies that Lubavitchers think that they are the “Master Race” of Judaism. Let me provide two anecdotes.

Despite these anecdotes, my previous point remains: Lubavitch is a derech, not a race. “

Of course it’s a derech not a race, if it was a race you couldn’t convert people to it

“ I asked her if she was taught in yeshiva that Lubavitchers are better than other Jews”

The only reason you are upset about this is because no one is saying you are the best Jew. Your gaavah is so strong you think you know better than your own gedolim, those whom have not condemned ChaBaD as idol worshippers Chas v’Shalom.

I’m having trouble not believing you are not a 14 year old Bochur at this point.

My 15 year old son has most likely studied more Torah in a Lubavitch mesivta than you have in your life. It shows when you can’t even engage in a proper Torah discussion with Seichel.

Qwerty,

Shulchan Aruch:
עָוֹן גָּדוֹל הוּא לְבַזּוֹת תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים אוֹ לִשְׂנאוֹתָן. לֹא חָרְבָה יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, עַד שֶׁבִּזּוּ בָהּ תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר, וַיִהְיוּ מַלְעִיבִים בְּמַלְאֲכֵי הָאֱלֹהִים וּבוֹזִים דְּבָרָיו וּמִתַּעְתְּעִים בִּנְבִיאָיו, כְּלוֹמַר, בּוֹזִים מְלַמְּדֵי דְבָרָיו. וְכֵן זֶה שֶׁאָמְרָה תוֹרָה, וְאִם בְּחֻקֹּתַי תִּמְאָסוּ, מְלַמְּדֵי חֻקּוֹתַי תִּמְאָסוּ. וְכָל הַמְבַזֶּה אֶת הַחֲכָמִים, אֵין לוֹ חֵלֶק לָעוֹלָם הַבָּא, וְהוּא בִּכְלַל כִּי דְבַר ה’ בָּזָה. וְאָסוּר לְשַׁמֵּשׁ בְּמִי שֶהוּא שׁוֹנֶה הֲלָכוֹת.

It is a great sin to disgrace or hate Torah scholars. Jerusalem was not destroyed until its people disgraced the Torah scholars, as it says: “They mocked the messengers of G-d, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets”, meaning they scorned those who taught His words. Similarly, when the Torah says, “If you despise My statutes”, it means you despise those who teach My statutes. Anyone who disgraces Torah scholars has no share in the World to Come, and is included in the verse, “For he has despised the word of G-d”. It is forbidden to serve someone who studies halachot.

Moreover the Gemara says that most Jews won’t be redeemed by Moshiach, the real Moshiach.

Qwerty, you don’t stop with this attack. You claim that trying to bring all Jews to do teshuva is worthless and contradicts a clear Gemara. You have made this claim on many occasions, and with vicious, angry tones. For example:

1. “There are serious questions with regard to Rabbi Schneersohn himself. He espoused views that contradict the Gemara. For example, he said that every Jew will be redeemed by Moshiach, with no exception, while the Gemara in Sanhedrin 111a states that only 0ne of 300,000 will be redeemed.”
2. “How could the Rebbe contradict an explicit statement in the Gemara, to wit, only one out of 300,000 Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach? According to the Rebbe all Jews, including Bernie Sanders, Woody Allen and the like will be redeemed.”
3. “For 2,000 years people learned the Gemara which said that just as only 2 of 600,000 Jews left Egypt and came to Israel, so too only 2 out of 600,000 Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach. No one ever questioned this until the Rebbhe decided that he knew the real Pshat and all Jews will be redeemed.”

And many, many more.
You go on to call a great talmid chacham “kofer” (r”l!) because you don’t understand what he said.

I will try to enlighten you:

The Rambam writes (Hilchos Teshuva 7:5) “וּכְבָר הִבְטִיחָה תּוֹרָה שֶׁסּוֹף יִשְׂרָאֵל לַעֲשׂוֹת תְּשׁוּבָה בְּסוֹף גָּלוּתָן וּמִיָּד הֵן נִגְאָלִין” – “The Torah has already promised that the Jewish people will do teshuva at the end of golus and immediately be redeemed.”

The Baal HaTanya (Tanya ch. 3 & Hilchos Talmud Torah) understands this to refer to every single Jew, as it states לא (בלתי) ידח ממנו נדח – “no one who was banished from Him [by his sins] will remain banished.”

So, when the Rebbe said every Jew will be redeemed and we should try to reach every Jew for teshuva, he was just following the Baal HaTanya.

You may ask, how does this fit with the Gemara that you keep quoting from Sanhedrin 111a?
Well, if you would look at any other part of the page other than that one line, you would realize that what you are quoting is ONLY the opinion or Rava, but does not fit with the other opinions on the page!

I will explain:

The posuk says that at the time of redemption, “two thirds will be wiped out and one third will remain.”
Thirds of what?
Resh Lakish says that only one third of the Jews (Arpachshad ben Sheim’s descendants) will survive, all others will die.
R’ Yochanan says, “Hashem is not happy with you saying such a thing” – that so many Jews (or non-Jews, depends on which meforash) will die! Instead, one third of Sheim’s descendants will survive. i.e., ALL the Jews and many non-Jews will survive.

Even according Resh Lakish (who said something that “Hashem is not happy with”), at least a third of Jews will survive, which disagrees with Rava’s opinion that only 2/600,000 will survive. Certainly R’ Yochanan, who says that all Jews will survive, argues with Rava.

Next section on the amud of Gemara:
Resh Lakish says, Hashem will only redeem the tzaddikim; one Jew from every city and two from every household.
R’ Yochanan says, “Hashem is not happy with you saying such a thing” – that most of the Jews won’t be redeemed! Rather, he explains, the merit of one tzaddik will cause his entire city to be redeemed, and in the merit of two, their entire household.
[Rav and Rav Kahana had the same machlokes, with Rav admonishing R’ Kahana.]

Finally, after all of this, comes the statement of Rava that only 2/600,000 will survive.

I can’t understand why, from this entire sugya, someone would specifically choose the opinion of Rava that most Jews won’t make it, while ignoring all the other opinions?
R’ Yochanan would definitely say about you “לא ניחא לי’ למרייהו דאמרת להו הכי” – Hashem is not pleased that you speak this way!

Even the statement of Rava needn’t be understood literally (that most Jews will not be redeemed). Meforshim explain that the majority of Jews who won’t be present at the Geula refers to the many PREVIOUS generations of Jews from before the Geula. These people will rise for techiyas hameisim and greatly outnumber the group of Jews who were part of the generation that was present at the actual time of Geula. [See footnotes in Artscroll, referencing Maharal and Yaavetz.]

Conclusion: Even if you consider yourself among the greatest tzaddikim, in the top 2/600,000 of the Jewish people, and you aren’t interested in seeing the millions of other “lowly Jews” join you in the Geula, choosing to accept Rava’s (literal) opinion that most Jews won’t be redeemed — that still doesn’t give you the right to repeatedly label a great talmid chacham as a kofer and a liar (r”l) for following the views of the Baal HaTanya, R’ Yochanan, Rav, and even Rava himself, as understood by many meforshim.

Qwerty, I hope you will either refute my points or do some serious teshuva for denigrating a tzaddik so many times with the arrogance of your ignorance.

coffee addict: Lubavitch is a derech, not a race.

Of course that’s true. They lost the race years ago!

But on a more serious note, out of all the Lubavichers on the thread the only one who addressed my two questions (about the LR being physically alive, and the correctness of using the igros) was Menachem Shmei, and he agreed with me! Are there really no Lubavichers around who can logically, and in a Torah-true fashion, answer my questions?