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Even the litvish are curious about Gimmel Tammuz.
Not sure what you mean. All the Litvaks are aware that it is the yartzheit of R’ Shnuer Kotler, the friediker Rosh Yeshiva of Lakewood.
Where is Gimmel Tammuz mentioned in Tanach or Talmud or Shulchan Aruch or Rishonim?
What do you mean by won?
Chabad does have a massive media presence, but not all Jews are converting to Chabadianity.
“Where is Gimmel Tammuz mentioned in Tanach or Talmud or Shulchan Aruch or Rishonim”??
In Gematria, gimmel is 3 and Tamuz is the 10th month (starting from Tishrei). 3+10=13. Clearly a siman of mazal for bored Litvish CR participants.
@ its mentioned as being 14 days before 17th of Tamuz
Litfish as in clean shaven 5 towns? Or Litfish as in Lakewood?
didan notzach !
In the parlance of Chabadianity (shout-out to RightJew; I love the term), Reb Shneur zt”l would be called “The Mittler Rosh Yeshiva.”
Even the litvish are curious about Gimmel Tammuz.
Curious about what? Everyone in the Litvish community who is interested in it understands what 3 Tammuz is. It’s the Yahrtzeit of the last Lubavitch Rebbe. What else is there to be curious about?
The Wolf
The Chabad-Lubavitch propaganda apparatus is sizable and busy, and has been so for quite a while. Nevertheless, discerning consumers know, that as its counterpart in the general fake news media, it is not something to put much, if any, faith in. That, though it poses as neutral and unbiased, in actuality it has a giant agenda that heavily, if not totally, compromises its product. Yes, there are still some naive people out there who fall for Chabad media at times, but B”H awareness and pushback is growing against this dangerous and insidious menace, and hopefully it will continue to be exposed for what it is, and relegated to the rubbish bin, the ash heap of history.
“The Chabad-Lubavitch propaganda apparatus is sizable and busy, and has been so for quite a while….”
With all due respect, the media efforts coming out of 770 are generally focused on the work of chabad shalichim around the world and are not a bunch of guys in black hats running up and down Eastern Parkway waving yellow flags or live-streaming 24×7 coverage from the Ohel. Likewise, the Agudah, Lakewood/BMG or KJ Satmar media efforts are all reasonably effective at sharing their “propaganda” at both a local and national level.
Gimmel Tammuz is the date that proved conclusively that the Rebbe couldn’t be Mashiach.
Too bad there are some people out there without any sechel who still think otherwise…@Lemayasch, the BMG media and dog and pony show they put on at the wells fargo venue is far greater than anything the Lubs put on.
Fact: Chabad-Lubavitch is invested much more heavily in PR than the others you mentioned, in various media. There is no comparison.
Just to mention R’ schneur kotlers connection to chabad:
What was the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe‘s involvement in the Shiduch of Rabbi Shneur Kotler? How did the Rebbe help Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi win the Din Torah against Rabbi Aharon Kotler?
It’s from the book making of a gadolThe following story was told over by Rabbi Moshe Ashkenazi OBM, member of Agudas Chassidei Chabad in Israel, and son of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi OBM, a Chabad Chossid and the Rov of Shanghai:
In 1940, as a Bochur, Rabbi Shneur Kotler fled Poland for Vilna, the capital of Lithuania, where many of the Non-Chassidic Yeshivos relocated due to the World War which began. In Vilna, he became engaged to Rischel Friedman, daughter of Rabbi Malkiel Friedman of Kovno.
A short while later, his grandfather, Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer sent the young Shneur a visa to enter Mandatory Palestine, which saved his life, while his bride escaped to Shanghai, a haven for many European Jews who escaped the war horrors and were saved.
During her stay in Shanghai, Rischel contracted the deadly Typhus disease, which threatened her life, and was placed in isolation, where she was expected to die. However, Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi and his wife didn’t give up hope, and took the young girl under their wing, caring for all her needs, and ensuring her recovery from the deadly disease. Afterwards, she dedicated herself to helping Chabad Bochurim in Shanghai, serving as the translator for the doctors who did not speak Yiddish or Polish, translating what the Bochurim told the doctors, and what the doctors ordered the Bochurim.
The next years were filled with worries about her family left behind in Europe, and she looked forward to meeting
During the war, Rischel looked forward to meeting her groom, Rabbi Shneur Kotler, who was then in Israel. In 1946, after the war ended, and the first chance of meeting her groom came about, Rischel was smuggled in a suitcase aboard a ship to the USA, where she hoped to meet her groom and get married. During the trip she was sick, and Gershon Chanowitz, one of the Chabad Bochurim she helped, ensured she was taken care of, so she can recover.
However, one person was not happy with this arrangement; the father of the groom, Rabbi Aharon Kotler, was vehemently opposed to the Shiduch, claiming that the Typhus will cause her to die young and not be able to have children; he therefore demanded that the girl forgive her Chosson and cancel the engagement.
Rischel was devastated, and sent a message that since the Chosson is still in favor of the Shiduch, she will only cancel the Shiduch if Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi will approve.
While this was going on, Rabbi Aharon Kotler called Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi to a Din Torah, asking for the funds that Rabbi Ashkenazi used for Chabad students during the war, and demanding he pay it back. The background to this story:
As a result of the pending Din Torah, and the Shiduch crisis, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Frierdiker Rebbe and asked him what to do about these two issues. The Frierdiker Rebbe answered that he should consult with the Rebbe (then known as the “Ramash”) and do as he says.The Ramash told Rabbi Asheknazi that he should stand strong to ensure the Shiduch takes place, saying that since they made Halachic T’naim, they have to follow through, and added that he doesn’t see a reason that she should be barren or die early. The Ramash also told him, that he should push off the Din Torah until after the wedding, and then he should claim that since he risked his life for getting the money, he was entitled to a percentage, and that this percentage he gave to Chabad Bochurim; he added that he should ask the Beis Din to determine the amount.
Rabbi Ashkenazi did as he was told, and after much convincing and even arranging a nice-sized dowry, he was able to convince Rabbi Aharon Kotler to allow his son, Shneur to marry Rischel.
After the wedding, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Rebbe Rayatz, and reported his conversation with the Ramash and the wedding. The Rebbe Rayatz spent a long time asking questions about the wedding, demanding to know every detail, including who was present, who spoke, what was served, etc. and thanked him profusely for his help.
After the wedding, when the Din Torah took place, Rabbi Ashkenazi presented his claims to the Beis Din, as ordered by the Rebbe, and the Beis Din found that Rabbi Aharon Kotler owes money to Rabbi Ashkenazi! Rabbi Ashkenazi replied, that he wants that the balance should be given to the young couple as dowry, and asked the Beis Din to ensure that it was fulfilled.
During the years that passed, Mrs. Rischel Kotler kept a connection with Rabbi & Mrs. Meir Ashkenazi, referring to them as her “parents,” and instructed her children to respect them and keep a friendship. When it was time for her son, Rabbi Yitzchok Shraga Kotler to get married, he married Miriam, granddaughter of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi.
The story here about Reb Aharon Kotler zt”l the gadol who transformed litvish America, is as false as the claim that the Rebbe is physically alive.
@lerntmintayrah
Great comment and comparison
Just like you were not there and have no way to verify if the story is true or not, so to you don’t understand at all what a rebbe is and what chabad means what they say the rebbe is alive (physically) see Tanya Igeres hakodesh perek 27.Sechel, you left out a very important part of the story – the fact that Ashkenazi ignored the directions he was given. He was instructed to disperse the funds to yeshiva guys but specifically to exclude Chabad students. He ignored it, and gave money to them.
In the end, the money he was owed was as a salary, which he used to repay the money that he wrongfully gave to the Chabad students.While the Yeshiva world hides behinds its shtenders, “Chabadianity” has morphed into a new, idolatrous, rebbe worshiping religion, IE a new Xtianity.
Just take a look at some of the videos on the “Moshiach Reality” youtube dot com channel:
“The Lubavitcher Rebbe is Atzmus U’mehus” (IE the rebbe is the essence of Hashem enclothed in a body L”HAVDIL).
“The Lubavitcher Rebbe – Resurrected Moshiach”
“The Lubavitcher Rebbe = History’s Greatest Manhig [Leader]”
“The Lubavitcher Rebbe Said He Is Moshiach”
etc., etc.There are many other Chabadianity websites using the idolatrous phrase “Rebbe shlita Melech Ha’Moshiach”.
Just everyone chill out.
I am sure you’d all be ready to use Chabad’s services when needed, like if you’re stuck between two transfer flights in middle of honolulu, and anything else, so as Chazal say, don’t throw a stone into the well you drank from (no I am not a chabadnik – very far from it, but I am a Jew.)
RightJew: you’re 100% correct. The Lubavitch people who believe the Rebbe is still Mashiach are apikorsim. They’re closer to Christianity than to Judaism.
True kenoim who know what Chabad stands for do not use their services or interact with them. Jews traveled for business and other purposes for literally thousands of years without Chabad, up until beginning around 40 years ago. People who hold fast to their values and know what they stand for are not afraid of being inconvenienced as a result.
This is anyway not a real argument, as two hours of research will prove the simple fact they are bchezkas minim until they explicitly reject their movement’s theology.@right jew. thanks for the reference. looks like great videos,
btw there is a new book published trying to explain The Torah Philosophy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
written by a Yeshiva University Rabbi called “Engaging the Essence”
(if you read his book honestly maybe you’ll understand what it means Atzmus U’mehus enclothed in a body)
@damoshe. i didn’t write the story, i copied from a website that copied from making of a gadol.Sechel, I know that, I saw the site. You skipped a big part of it.
> True kenoim who know what Chabad stands for do not use their services or interact with them.
This is not true in my experience. I’ve seem yeshivish and Satmar travelers staying at Chabad houses. Maybe they check it out and avoid crzier ones, I do not know, do not go there either 🙂
@coffee room guy
True kenoim: pinchas was a true kenai, (this week’s parshas)
In 5743 there was someone who acted as a true kenoi and attacked a lubavitcher (I forgot if it was R’ pinya kork a”h for teaching Tanya in Williamsburg, or R’ mendel vechter for becoming lubavitch and teaching chassidus chabad to his talmidim in satmer)
Anyway the rebbe spoke about it and mentioned that these people are following not pinchas rather ZIMRI,
Fast forward 30 yrs later it was a famous story he was accused of doing the acts of ZIMRI (or worse) and sentenced to life in prison.“The Lubavitch people who believe the Rebbe is still Mashiach are apikorsim.”
That seems to include just about all of them these days. Even leaders of the purportedly non-messianic establishment shluchim like Moshe Kotlarsky and Berel Lazar have spoken about waiting for the hisgalus (revelation) of their late leader relatively recently, many years after he passed away.
@lemayseh
Also includes Rav Bridewitz who gave a haskama to a Sefer about how the rebbe is still moshiach. See shmo shel moshiachChabad won in media a long long time ago. They were always quick to embrace new technologies as ways of reaching people, while the Chassidish, Yeshivish, and Modernisch oiloms were much more hesitant. Therefore references to frum Yiddishkeit on TV, movies, and the internet are almost always from a Chabad perspective. A lot of people who know mostly of minhagim through the Internet think that things like the day the Ba’al HaTanya was released is widely celebrated, or that there’s only one person referred to as “the Rebbe”.
I’m new here, I’d just like to point out that most of the publicity around this years Gimmel Tammuz didn’t originate in Chabad and was not directed by it.
For instance, the new Koren book on the Rebbe’s Torah philosophy, Engaging the Essence, was written by a Modern Orthodox academic and Talmid Chacham. There was definitely input from Chabad insiders, as the Rebbe’s Torah is vast and daunting to navigate even with an experienced guide and certainly without one. It was not commissioned by the Chabad establishment (unlike Joseph Telushkin’s biography that was published for the twentieth yartzeit).
The 18Forty podcast by Rabbi David Bashevkin is also in the midst of covering Chabad and the Rebbe. Rabbi Bashevkin is by no means a Lubavitcher and has no “dog in this fight”, he is simply genuinely fascinated by the Rebbe’s Torah and message and it’s relevance to the current moment. As he should be.
So all this conspiracy talk about the Chabad media conspiracy reminds me about the trope about how the Jews control the media (and everything else). There is a kernel of truth in both claims, as both Jews in general and Chabad in particular are influential and media savvy, but the obsession with that fact and the inability to consider the substance of the issues smacks of the same deranged jealousy and midos raos that animate anti-semites everywhere…
Chabad-Lubavitch is part of the Fake News Media establishment.
I never said that use them myself, though it was an assumption on your part.
Notwithstanding my relation to Chabad or my opinions on it, for the most part, those that are compulsively obsessed with anti Chabad style talk, usually in my experience, pretty happy to use Chabad (probably with some sad excuse of something like at least they will get some zechut if i go there)…
“Those that are compulsively obsessed with anti Chabad style talk, usually in my experience, pretty happy to use Chabad”
PureYid: As someone who has indulged Chabad hospitality for several decades at dozens of locations throughtout the world, I can confirm you sage assessment. I suspect that from a numerical perspective, there may have been more misnagdim dining at Chabad house dinners in remote corners of the globe than Chassidim. Nor have I ever seen someone ejected from a Chabad minyan for adding “vayatzmach purkanei…” in kaddish or too loudly intoning an “Uuuumein”:
Chabad won media maybe.
Anti chabad won the mishpacha and Yated neeman. So?@EchadHaemes I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. It’s just that Chabad takes a different approach to interacting with goyim than the rest of the frum world. What that results in is tons of content online that’s frankly baffling to anyone who isn’t Chabad. Not just gimmel Tammuz, but also Elul posts about “The king outside” or something, and all references to “The Rebbe” being Rav Schneerson of blessed memory. Compare that to virtually any non-Chabad frum publication, like Mispacha or Ami. If gimmel Tammuz is even mentioned (it’s usually not) there will be clarification as to what that day means. Whether or not it was non-Chabad who started it, it’s hard to push the argument that gimmel Tammuz means anything to the vast majority of frum Jews who are unaffiliated with Lubavitch.
@pure-yiddishkeit The fact that Chabad is very good at kiruv and extremely useful at times, does not negate criticism of them. I know plenty of non-Chabad Rabbonim who won’t daven in a Chabad shul that they never heard of since they don’t know if the shul (or “house” as I think you call them) rejects the apikorsus aspects of Chabad messianism.Yserbius: where I live, I know of a few people, including local Rabbonim, who won’t step foot into the Chabad place, because the Rabbi there is a Meshichist. He won’t say the Rebbe died – he refers to “the day the Rebbe hid himself from us”. He says yechi after every davening.
I won’t go there either, and if it came to it, I wouldn’t count him towards a minyan.
It’s caused me problems – a good friend of mine made a bar mitzvah there, and I had to apologize to him and explain why I wouldn’t be able to attend. Thankfully the weekday event was somewhere else!The anti chabad who won’t walk into a chabad or mishechist shul are living in fantasy. If you enjoy living that way good for you, I’m sure you get a lot of brownie points when you tell you’re friends how much of a kanai you are.
But 1) the ou hechahar has many mashgichim who are lubavitch and mishechist (as mentioned before that all chabad believe the rebbe is moshiach (according to lemayse),
2) k you won’t go to a chabad minyan when you’re on vacation, good excuse to daven yourself and save the trip to the chabad house
3) there is a podcast by R’ dovid Lichtenstein where he interviewes many leading rabbonim who all say there is nothing wrong with mishechistim who say the rebbe is moshiach
I.e. Rav Hershel shachter, Rav Dovid Cohen. And more as I wrote before, Rav Yitzchok Britowitz and others gave a haskama to a Sefer called shmoi shel moshiach – proving moshiach can be from the dead (written by a mishechist lubavitcher)Why would one NOT say veyatzmach purkanei in a Chabad shul?
My point was that the fact the publicity didn’t originate in Chabad means that more and more Frum Jews are discovering the relevance of the Rebbe’s Torah and Hashkafah. I don’t know the percentage stats, but it’s definitely a growing phenomenon.
To be honest, this was bound to happen and is long overdue. The fact that it took this long is mostly due to the small mindedness of many Lubavitchers, especially those in positions of leadership….
@EchadHaemes I don’t think Rav Schneersons Torah and Hashkafah have any more relevance to non-Chabad than they did before. It’s important to learn, sure, but the Hashkafa isn’t something a Litvak or Chussid would put above their own Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva. And everyone learns their Rav or Rebbe’s Torah as first and foremost with all the others being a lower priority. Like a Satmarer learns Divrei Yoel and sifrei Chassidus, an American Litvak would prioritize Pachad Yitzchok. Then if there’s time or interest, may pick up his seforim on the RAMBAM or read a sicha or two. Likutei Iggros are all but ignored outside of Chabad.
I don’t see why a couple of frum Internet influencers mentioning some Chabad holiday really means much, especially considering the vast overrepresentation Chabad has on the ‘net.
They don’t have more relevance then they did before. They were always relevant, and people are now coming to recognize it. Perhaps you would also if you actually sat down and learnt it…
The Rebbe’s Hashkafa is qualitatively different then everything else that exists today in Klal Yisroel. It is more developed, more potent, more sourced and more compelling then anything else out there.
ובחנוני נא בזאת…
(@yeserbius)
Why is chabad Torah spreading more and more? A few weeks ago there were interviews where many rabbonim spoke about learning likutai sichos
I.e. Rav Hershel shachter, Rav Moshe Elefant, Rav Yitzchok Britowitz, Rav sholomo Katz .
Why is this, why don’t you have people from all circles running to other seforim? The reason may be explained by what R’ Leibel wulliger said (and is clear to anyone who spent time learning likutai sichos)Rabbi Leibel Wulliger of Boro Park, Rosh Kollel of Yeshiva Torah V’Daas, urged all Torah Jews to study Likkutei Sichos. As he put it:
“These teachings show us how to live and how to shape our homes. Everybody should learn the Rebbe’s sichos regularly, daily; if not, at least once a week.”
@EchodHaemes Saying that the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s Hashkafa is “quantifiably different” is a uniquely Chabad perspective that I don’t think you realize. Again, outside of Lubavitch, Rav Schneerson ZT”L is viewed as one of the great gedolim of the previous generation. Not the greatest, but probably in the top ten. And yes, @sechel83, that perspective is held even by those who read his speeches and seforim.
“3) there is a podcast by R’ dovid Lichtenstein where he interviewes many leading rabbonim who all say there is nothing wrong with mishechistim who say the rebbe is moshiach”
שקר-שקר-שקר
The fact that you are promoting your Moshiach sheker does not allow you to make up things. On the other hand, I am not too surprised that a follower of a Moshiach sheker would not suffice with that, and would add additional falsehood to it. But it still is wrong. For shame.
With all due respect, that’s simply not the case. The qualitative difference is discernable to anyone who immerses themselves in the מי הדעת הטהור of the Rebbe’s Torah. And I don’t mean skimming a sicha here or there. I mean learning l’iyun for and extended period of time. The more you invest in it, the more you will find. I’ve seen it happen many times to non-Chabad Yidden, whether frum or not.
הוי כל צמא, לכו למים
Lemayse. Listen to his podcast number 102. No need to debate
I listened to it (Headlines show 102), and what you are saying is false.
Despite David Lichtenstein’s efforts to mislead, distort, confuse, and obfuscate, and his notorious creative editing of his program to twist things the way he wants them to be (he is a Clinton supporter after all), Rav Mendel Shafran shlit”a, and Rav Hershel Schachter shlit”a came out against what you say they are okay with in the program. Re clips from other rabbonim, there is a Litvish blog that did a review and analysis of that episode years ago and debunked it thoroughly. If someone does a Google search for the title of its post on the topic (Headlines Radio Program Advocates and Spins for Lubavitch Acceptance, Rabbis Wary) they will find it easily.
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