Chabad Inspires all Jews to Yearn for Mashiach

Dear Neville,

Nothing about Chabad. The switch to not wearing tefillin on Chol Hamoed is the most likely of the four to have been influenced by kabbalistic theories. Rav Moshe wrote a teshuva about it.

>>>This language was removed from subsequent prints.

This is a lie. There is no edition missing these words, because Lubavitch has no need to cover this up.

Since this has been discussed at great length hundreds of times in the CR, it is pointless to rehash.

Sechel83, the first thing one has to know when trying to learn Kabbolah (or even Aggadah) is that one has to be extremely careful and many things there may not be taken at their literal reading!

Avira, all those are post-factum (and faulty) defenses. The real reason is their understanding of Kabbola. They would do it even without those faulty explanations. The Shulchan Aruch says that one sits in the sukkah on Shmini Atzeres. Many Chassidim would not sit there on Shmini Atzeres even if the weather is fabulous.
The Rebbes are “Torosom umanosom”? Even the extreme Litvaks would not award that ptur to big masmidim in t!mes of the Achronim!

Dear Neville,

Contested minhagim from White Russia.

The three are:

1) Skipping shalosh seudos
2) Eating before shacharis
3) Not sleeping in the succah

They all had their rationales that aren’t so relevant today.

But people tend to keep their minhagim.

So I don’t see what the issue is.

Because it’s not just Chabad that does these things.

Sechel, it’s not my problem if you can’t understand yiddish. It’s right there in the link i sent.

like i wrote before, read the words its talking about asking for a tikun.
anyways i have a great idea: all the litvaks who didn’t learn chassidus (a good amount of the seforim 10+ (i should really say 100+)) they should in stead of arguing about chassidus, which they know nothing about, there is plenty of arguments you can have with other litvaks, like brisk with rav shach, about voting, the get, or yeshiva university and הגאון האדיר ר’ יוסף דוב סולובייטשיק with brisk of yerushalayim, etc, etc,

I will admit, I often eat before davening. I have a medication I have to take first thing in the morning, and if I don’t take a bite with it, it can cause horrible nausea. So I take a handful of cheerios or chex and eat it when I take the medication, then I go to daven. Obviously this is not ideal, and is only for health purposes.

Back to the OP, “lakewhut”:

That was a solid piece of Motzi shem ra on all of Klal Yisrael.
Especially given what is going on in the world, it is rather slanderous to write that Jews in general are not really waiting for Mashiach and that only Chabad does so.

In fact, Chabad is waiting for their Rebbe to return, which is why they may express more passion about it than do Jews who are waiting for (the actual) Mashiach from among the living.

Neville, just look in Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim 666 and 668 and in Mishnah Brurah there also. It is a good idea to learn the topic first.

Menachem…, I criticized the Mitteler Rebbe, not the Shulchan Aruch ha’Rav.

Mdd, the chabad rebbes had a lot of respect and were accepted as much as any other chasidus…

just pointing out that i just checked that website identifying chabad, 1) they take one sicha out of context, as i already discussed בעטן in a continuation to before, about asking for a tikun not praying,
2) these guys are against the alter rebbe too, so PSA, cuz some claim they are only against todays chabad, so good for them all all misnagdim who are against most of jews who are chassidish, talmidim of the baal shem tov, etc, so dont learn shulchan aruch harav, keep the cherem of the gra etc, zai gezunt un shtark.

Dear Neville,

I cared for some Old Litvaks in a nursing home. All of them except for one, ate before shacharis. One of them had dementia. If he didn’t eat first, he would start davening maariv. (As the halacha is clear not to eat before maariv. I’m not here to criticize anybody on any of this. But what happened to that halacha?)

re: shaharis. People used to daven early and then going (walking or riding a donkey) to work. Unless they were bnei melachim. Some still do this, but others daven at more convenient times. Maybe we should search for halochos for bnei melachim – were they supposed to also starve?

Dear Avira,

In the old world before electricity and standard time, these things were very different. Your extrapolating from our customs to theirs.

The minhag/halacha about not eating before shacharis was based upon totally different circumstances than today.
In the alte heim, there was no electricity or refrigeration. Even preparing a cup of coffee was a major deal. You had to rebuild the fire, grind the beans etc which took time and caused genuine concern that you’d miss shacharis. Today, flip on the light in the kitchen, pop in a kcup and in less than 5 minutes you have your coffee and can daven with a better frame of mind. And, it’s not gaava if you drink the coffee at 5:50 and the next minyan is at 6:30. You’re not delaying davening .

It has nothing to do with the effort made in preparing food. The rishonim (mentioned by the Tur in the above siman) say it is gaavah to eat before davening, and therefore it is allowed to drink water, tea, coffee because it isn’t gaavah…

Many teshuvos have been written about drinking coffee with milk. Rav moshe has a heter because in our time, it’s so typical to drink it with milk and sugar that it’s not gaavah, but others disagreed. The prevailing custom is to drink coffee with milk and sugar.

However a fancy starbucks type drink would definitely be assur.

The poskim make no mention of the effort required in preparing the food, nor do they talk at all about missing davening.

Missing davening applies to mincha and maariv, as shu”a paskens.

the reason chabad eats before davening is simple. the shulchan aruch harav paskens that if one needs to eat to be able to have more kavana by davening, its permited. the custom in chabad is to learn 1-2 hours (at least) of chassidus before davening – to prapare for davening – learning about gadlus ha-kel, then to daven which is a major focus – (also mikvah, hisbonenus, long davening (a good few hours) (the alter rebbe says in tanya that todays days davening is the ikur avoda (not torah – like in the time of gemara))
so most people would be very hungry if they did not eat

Neville, you clearly misunderstood the sources and missed a befeirushe Mishna Brurah that says it is a chiyuv.
Menachem…, the Ramoh says that ha’medakdekim be’mitsvos sleep in the sukkah. And, basically, all those heteirm are limudei zechus and not real, strong heteirim. The problem with the Chabad approach is that you go against opene Gemoros because of a personal feeling of the Mitteler Rebbe which was based on the Kabbalistic knowledge. Chazal also knew about the makifei Binah, you know.

Sechel, chas veshalom to say that the tanya says that tefilah is the ikkar and not Torah; i don’t know how they twist the sefer, but I’ve learned it, and the way he describes torah is food for the neshoma, dveikus that no other mitzva – including tefilah – brings(perek 5, and 25)(or 23, i forget))

And allowing an issur that might be deoraysoh is not “simple.”

And where do people get a heter to eat whatever they want? The shu”a harav doesn’t say to have a meal. He says you can eat IF you need to for kavanah; who decided that everyone needs to eat to have kavanah? I daven with more kavanah by shacharis than i do by mincha, after i have eaten; I’m not the only one. How can you be koveah a minhag/heter that’s universal when people are different?

As for learning about Hashem before davening; who says such preparation is allowed if it’ll make you have to violate an issur of eating? Maybe the shu”a harav allows eating in order to do the basic mitzvah of tefilah with kavanah; who says it’s mutar for tosefes?

Correction to my previous post:
The Shulchan Aruch says ואינו מנהג
(Nasty spell check)

mdd1,
Please explain why all attack Chabad for דוקא being נוהג like an accepted leniency, while I have yet to see anyone attack the chassidish velt (and many litvishers) for going AGAINST the halacha in Shulchan Aruch and Mishnah Brurah.

Again, Shulchan Aruch mentions the minhag of not sleeping in the Sukkah and supports it (albeit בדיעבד), while it mentions the Shmini Atzeres minhag and CONDEMNS it!

I am not chas v’shalom pushing to attack anyone’s minhagim. I think every yid should follow the mesorah from his rabbeim and the tzaddikim of previous generations.

I am just upset by the blatant double standard.
If it’s a mesorah from the Baal Shem Tov passed down by polisher chassidim – it is welcomed with open arms.
If it’s a mesorah from the Mitteler Rebbe (during the times of the Baal HaTanya) passed down by Chabad rabbeim – it is “akiras mitzvos” (ח”ו עפ”ל)!

Menachem, real Litvaks have a problem with both.

about tefilah being the ikur avodah look in kuntres acharon דף קסב.
talmud torah was the ikur avoda in the times of gemarah – דף קיב. now is tzedakah
i did make a mistake and mix them together.
anyway, learn the whole tanya beiyun (today there are plenty of biurim printed)

Sechel, are you ever going to understand that outside of your community, the writings of the Lubavitcher rebbe in likutei sichos etc… have little influence?

I’m not interested in reading his thoughts on what is more important in my life. Zos hatorah lonsehey muchlefes. It doesn’t change. Talmud torah keneged kulam – the rambam also writes that there is no mitzvah “that is keneged all the mitzvos” meaning other mitzvos it says “kneged kulam” like yishuv ererz yisroel etc., But none of them are equal to Torah.

And he was after the gemara.

I’m also not interested in the countless commentaries chabad churns out on tanya; it’s a sefer like any other chasidishe sefer, snd it can be learned the same way. I learn it with as much iyun as i did sfas emes and meor aynayim. The tanya actually clarified a lot of ideas for me which i learned in meor aynayim.

I looked up the source in kuntres acharon. Of course, he says no such thing. He says that the ikkar “birur” is through tefilah, even though Torah is higher. That doesn’t mean our ikkar avodah and time investment should be in tefilah. It means that tefilah accomplishes something important which Torah doesn’t in our time. This would actually explain why people who are patur from davening because they’re toraso umnaso (rebbes, according to rav meir shapiro) still daven, because there are things which tefilah alone can accomplish.

It’s also not even his own chidush – he’s just quoting the Arizal!

And he doesn’t mention “the time of the gemara,” rather he just says that “bazman hazeh the ikkar birur is through tefilah” – i don’t know when bazman hazeh started; maybe it was after the churban?

Whoever taught you tanya really did a number on you. That’s a problem with chabad; too much chiddushim on esoteric and lofty concepts which lead to forsaking basic yiddishkeit.