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Health – “You implied (and possibly mean) that noone should have cell phones. This is typical of the mentality nowadays -find a problem and assur the whole thing. I think people do this in our generation to pat themselves on the back -saying to themselves -“I’m better than everyone else”.”
I think that the vast majority of people who assur things do it (as crazy as this might sound) because they think those things are having a negative influence, and they want that influence stopped. Not because they think everybody else is isn’t frum, not because they think they’re “better than everyone else”, not even to “pat them selves on the back”. I think they do it because they see a problem, and want it fixed. Just because somebody wants things differently than you do does not mean he looks down on you. We have (or at least should have) the right to be machmir without being accused of “hating”, “shunning”, or forming an “exclusive club”. Why assume the worst? Can’t we at least entertain the possibility that all those “frummies” might actually be decent, well-meaning people? Or is that too much to ask?
2morecents- “The idea of having even a plain Jane talk / text only phone is downright dangerous in and of itself. The internet capabilities (which is inevitable) is just the icing on the cake that can further do harm.”
Explain how it is dangerous? Don’t just make comments without any logical basis. Unless you mean because the phone can be upgraded to have the internet. If this is what you mean, it’s obvious you didn’t read my post. The phone I have isn’t humanly possible to have internet.
2morecents, a parent should be fully aware of who their child is friends with and what the positive and negatives of each friend are. Again, monitor your children’s texts and phone calls (the numbers are easily traceable on the bill). Know your childrens friends. Know who they are hanging out with, where they are going, what they are doing.
Unfortunately, its fear mongering like what you are talking about that has laced Judaism today. Owning a phone is not going to lead to licentiousness, especially if you are careful. If you are irresponsible parent and let your children run wild, don’t verify where they have been or what they are doing, then maybe. But a phone is a tool, nothing more.
As to married adults – I have had my phone since before I got married. In 6 years, I have not used my phone for impropriety.
SJS, WHAT?!? You’re really advocating invasion of your children’s privacy by snooping on who they call and text? What ever happened to these children’s constitutional rights?!?
What’s next?? I hope you’re not gonna also advocate taking away the internet on their phones. I mean what if they need to research (with their full legal rights of privacy) some “homework”?
This is just as bad as abrogating these children’s right to a cellphone. Don’t you have enough faith in your child’s chinuch to trust your children with these necessities?
What has society come to?
Helpful, I’m rolling my eyes but I will answer you seriously.
A child does NOT have a constitutional right to a cell phone. If a parent does give a child a cell phone, it should be with rules. In my opinion, rules include finding out who the child is calling and where they are going. Make sure the rules are known up front.
I also don’t think you have to scrutinize every second of their phone bill, but you should be aware of who they are calling. You need to verify that your chinuch has stuck.
Lets liken it to a car. You teach your teenager how to use one. You get them lessons. They get their license and early on you always drive with them. Then as time goes on, you make sure they get in and check their mirrors and fasten their seat belt before leaving. After a while, all you ask is “Where did you go?” But its still YOUR car and you control it.
I don’t advocate big brother. But I do advocate that parents stay involved with their children and make sure that the freedoms they are giving their children are age appropriate and that their children are responsible. Train, assist and then let them succeed.
At no point to advocate abandoning your children for “trust.”
2morecents, I’m curious. You say there is a problem. What is your solution? What do you think should happen?
2morecents:
“They should make sure there are ample payphones available throughout.”
Payphones cost money. Where is this money coming from? Are you advocating taking money from schools that can be put to better uses, and instead put in phones?
“It seems to me that other than people involved in medicine or emergency types of professions, the entire concept of needing a phone with them 24 hours a day wherever they go is crazy.”
I want my kids to be reachable while they are out of the house, and I want to be reachable to them. They have to travel to school through some dangerous areas. If they travel to the city, I want to be able to reach them, and vice versa. If they have a question about finding a place to eat or they need to know when the next bus home is, they need to reach me. Of course, cv”s if there is an emergency, both sides need to be reachable.
“The fact that no matter where you are or what your doing you can be interrupted by a phone call in your pants pocket seems quite odd to me.”
You don’t have to be interrupted. You can turn the phone off (especially in shule!), or not answer the call. I certainly don’t answer every call, especially when I am busy. The phone does not dictate my life.
FWIW, I agree with you about families getting tzedaka should not have cell phones.
Interesting that some people here don’t think it’s a safety issue. Many years ago (more than I care to admit) I had a friend whose older sister was taking a class at night and had to drive to and from school. There was no such thing as cell phones in those days. Her parents did not like the idea of her being alone at night so they got a CB radio for the car so she could contact them if the car broke down or if anything happened. If nothing else, if gave the parents peace of mind.
Many years ago (not as many as the first story) I was driving home late at night. My car broke down. There were no cell phones in those days either. I was not in the greatest neighborhood, and there were no payphones to be found. Luckily there was a residential hotel and the people were nice enough to let me use their phone otherwise I would have been stranded.
I got my first cell phone several years ago when my father a”h was living with me. If he needed to contact me, I wanted him to be able to. Without a cell phone how would he reach me when I was in the car or at a student’s home? (Don’t say he could have called me at their house. It wouldn’t have been fair to make a man in his 80s have to keep track of my schedule.)
Finally, one day I was in a cell phone store getting my boss’s cell phone repaired. There was a man their (not frum) buying his son a cell phone as a bar mitzvah present. I must admit I thought it was ridiculous for a kid that age to have a cell phone. I thought it was ridiculous until I heard the father say, “Now we’ll be able to talk to each other without your mother’s interference.”
There are many reasons to have cell phones. If you don’t want one, don’t have one. If you don’t want YOUR children to have one, don’t get them one. But please don’t impose your made-up chumrahs on others.
2morecents -“All it takes is one friend with problems to keep calling her or texting her. Her friend can also tell her friends to invite the cell phone girl to go with them to places that the cell phone girl would never dream of visiting but peer pressure is a tough thing to fight especially if she knows the girl from camp and likes her. She could very quickly via simple texting, become best friends with some of the other girls, boyfriends or girlfriends as they keep sharing and trying to get together.”
Your scenario is very far fetched. My children don’t have even one friend with “problems”. We shouldn’t dictate how to act in life because of conspiracy theories.
I would hope that if parents are planning on letting their child get a cell phone, first of all, they should take into consideration how much they can trust their child, second of all, set up rules for the child to obide by (obviously, if the rules cannot be adhered to, consequences must be set up) number three, (in my opinion) they should make sure it is a NEED rather than a desire. if it is just a desire (to be considered with it…)that may be a red flag.but you gotta know ur child (i’m sure that some children are good at keeping secrets, and their parents don’t know (yet) not to trust them, so that can be a problem, too)
personally, i got my cell phone right b4 HS because i was doing a lot that summer and my parents wanted to be able to keep in touch with me to make sure i was always ok. and my parents knew they could trust me (B”H!)
obviously, this is not good for some children
2morecents -I’ll start by premising, if a child is not on a good way, then not getting him/her a cell won’t make a difference. They will find a way to do whatever they want. Usually children who become like this were abused in some way, either by the parents or by their teachers. As far as good children are concerned, there is a big difference between them and a person who is overweight and smokes. The good children to start having bad friends is a Meeyot shaino motzay, which we don’t have to take into account, as opposed to someone who is overweight and smokes. Therefore acc. to Torah principles, I see no reason to not give them cells.
I would like to share something with all of you, something that might help steer you and and all your loved ones clear of the temptations that come along with cell phone applications and the internet dangers in general. There are two phrases that stick with me 24/7 and those are “da lifnei mi atah omed” and “shivisi eschem l’negdi tamid”. Maybe those phrases should be stuck on the top of your computers and put on the screen savers of both cell phones and computers.
Maybe if those two inyanim were something every Jew was taught to live by and believe there would be a lot less problems among us and a lot less issues as well.
shivisi HASHEM lnegdi samid, not eschem!!!!
aries, good idea, however sometimes people get immuned to the signs around them. Halevay we had these psukim in our hearts at every moment.
I stand corrected. However for me it is shivisi Hashem l’negdi tamid, but for most people who don’t get it, they should remember that Hashem has placed “eschem” lnegdi tamid! HE is the king and you are all my subjects. Know that I am watching you.
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