- This topic has 143 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Has anyone used this type of therapy? Was it helpful?
it’s narishkeit
Not narishkeit at all. It has been shown to effectively treat anxiety, depression, and other problems. Many frum therapists specialize in it.
See? It didn’t work.
Most CBT practitioners use psychotherapy for themselves…
CBT is the most effective psychotherapy used for depression, anxiety and a bunch of other disorders. It has been clinically and statistically proven to work. Arguing otherwise is just plain wrong.
It’s not foolproof.
CBT works. I know someone that practices it and trust me- its real.
It’s not foolproof, but neither is any other treatment.
It’s narishkeit. The “studies” are bogus.
Hagah atzmecha, the studies show they can cure anxiety in 10 sessions or something, yes? Do you know anyone who was cured in 10 sessions? No.
Could you please support yourself with evidence?
Nobody claims that you can cure anxiety in 10 sessions. What psychologists claim is that you can treat abnormal anxiety in a limited number of sessions. It’s not a cure. It’s a treatment. People with anxiety disorders will always have their anxiety. What CBT can do is teach the patient ways to live with their anxiety.
The age and gender make no difference on the efficacy of the treatment.
i scream-
Every situation is different. Ask your therapist or maybe your psychiatrist…
BTW- if you want to hear more about this kind of therapy from someone that practices it- Mordechai Weinberger LCSW has a phone hotmline with daily questions and answers, shiurim etc. The # is 718-298-2011
Could you please support yourself with evidence?
Westen, D., Novotny, C., and Thompson-Brenner, H. (2004). The empirical status of empirically supported therapies: Assumptions, methods, and findings. Psychological Bulletin, 130, 631-663.
popa is answering from a text book point of view. In real life, CBT does work for some people. I have seen it do great things for kids and adults who have anxiety or ADHD, who don’t want to use medication. If you try it for a bit and don’t see results, it might not be for you.
I marvel at the imbecility of some of the commenters here. CBT is a reputable therapy technique, and there is a huge body of evidence of its efficacy – both with formal scientific studies and with the anecdotal reports of thousands of practitioners. However, the saichel of the street wishes to proclaim it as “narishkeit”. Well, guess what? If I will feel the need to benefit from therapy, I will seek advice from a professional who is properly trained, not the mental midgets that opine about matters they have not studied and do not understand. I’m sorry about the name calling – it is not personal (can’t be with anonymous screen names). It is just troubling to hear the pronouncements coming from the position of ignorance.
Your username should be more then skin deep “the little I know” ,of course nothing personal, but by you saying that “troubling to hear the pronouncements coming from the position of ignorance” that’s pretty rough don’t you think? I mean you have no idea, since we are all anon here, if popa is a psychotherapist or if anyone else is for that matter, maybe popa is very well versed in cbt, maybe they have a personal friend whom it hadn’t worked for after all popa brought proofs that it doesn’t work, I haven’t checked those but still I think you are coming with the presupposition that we are all typical close minded frummies and have no clue what cbt even is and I for one won’t stand for it, do not hold yourself on a higher standard if you don’t know what the other actually knows
This Popa Bar Abba guy is utterly and completely wrong. CBT is empirically supported and evidence-based. I am a frum guy in a doctoral program in clinical psychology. The study that this Popa guy quoted does not even appear to have anything to do with CBT. I wonder if he even knows what CBT is. Hey Popa, check this one out-
Andrew C. Butler, Jason E. Chapman, Evan M. Forman, Aaron T. Beck, The empirical status of cognitive-behavioral therapy: A review of meta-analyses, Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 26, Issue 1, January 2006, Pages 17-31
For those that don’t know, the above is a more recent study than the one popa bar abba cited and it was specifically on CBT and proved that it can be very effective for certain disorders. Original Poster – it works and may very likely be able to help you or whoever you know that’s looking into it. Good luck!
And I think your position is ignorance.
Popa, one study arguing that randomly controlled trials need evaluation says nothing of the efficacy of CBT.
The American Psychological Association lists CBT as a empirically validated treatment. It has been shown to be more effective than control groups numerous times. Just look at its wiki page. It links to many studies showing its effectiveness.
Just a guess but I don’t think popa ever heard of CBT before this thread posted. That’s why he’s called a troll.
i scream- yes a second opinion is always a good idea, but this isnt the place to get it. Call relief or a therapy referral line and get s/o to speak to.
Cbt is one kind of therapy. It works for some people, for some circumstances and issues. Other therrapies work better for other ppl or other issues. Some people need a combo. Some people need something specific. Some people can benefit from any one of a few choices. And some can benefit from a therapy but dont match well with their therapist and need to find a more compatible match for themselves. Only a certified therapist or doctor who knows your specifics and details can give you reliable advice. Seriously not an open forum full of trolls and anonymous names who can be 15 or 75
The American Psychological Association lists CBT as a empirically validated treatment.
Now we agree with the APA? lol
Go look up what they say about medications.
If you hold of psychology, wouldn’t it make sense to agree with it’s primary organization?
The APA has nothing to do with medication. They’re psychologists, not psychiatrists. They deal with psychotherapy, not drug therapy.
If you hold of psychology, wouldn’t it make sense to agree with it’s primary organization?
No, why would it?
If I agree with Judaism, does that mean I agree with the Reform Movement which is probably its primary organization?
Everyone agrees with some form of psychology.
Popa, it’s the most prestigious of any psychological organization. It’s the gold standard of psychology.
Let me ask you a question. How many practicing psychoanalysts are out there? How many people practice humanistic psychology? How about gestalt?
The answer is very few, if any. The reason is because there is no evidence for these therapies. While psychoanalysis might sound nice,and roger’s therapy may make you feel nice, they have not shown to be effective. CBT on the other hand has shown to work.
It’s a very simple theory. People can change their behaviors. People can change their thoughts. That’s the premise of CBT. The therapist helps the patient work through their irrational or circular reasoning, and instructs them on how to change their maladaptive behavior.
Ok, so you agree with them on everything?
If they have evidence to back up what they say. And they usually do.
If they have evidence to back up what they say. And they usually do.
So, then you mean to say, “no, I don’t agree with them”. You just use them as mareh mekomos to find research.
In any event, CBT effectively treats only symptoms of mental illness. It is sold as just a plan to cope with it. It completely gives up on addressing the causes of it, and in doing so is probably missing many other symptoms.
Suppose someone suffers from anxiety and depression, and the reason is that they have a low self image, owing to perfectionism based on misperceptions of what success and failure are.
So now they come to the pseudo-psychologist and he tells them that when they feel down, they should force themselves to think about happy outcomes. So then one day he is in yeshiva and is scared about looking bad in shiur, but he just thinks about happy outcomes and it all works out.
And then one day he is dating someone, and are scared to marry them because they find something imperfect–because nothing is ever perfect. So he thinks about happy outcomes instead. But does he marry her? Wouldn’t it have been nice if he had seen a real psychologist who had gotten to the root of his issue instead?
True, I can’t say I always agree with them, but as flagship organization for psychologists in the United States and Canada, you should not toss away their positions lightly.
Might I ask why you have such a negative view of the APA?
When I get my degree, I plan on doing both CBT and subconsious work for the reason popa brought up.
“Wouldn’t it have been nice if he had seen a real psychologist who had gotten to the root of his issue instead”
What exactly could a “real psychologist” do?
“And then one day he is dating someone, and are scared to marry them because they find something imperfect–because nothing is ever perfect. So he thinks about happy outcomes instead. But does he marry her? “
What on earth does this have to do with CBT? Anxiety about dating is completely normal. There is nothing harmful about it.
Popa, I think you are lacking a basic understanding of CBT. Anxiety or depression aren’t causes by negative behaviors or thinking. They are most likely biological illnesses. But their symptoms manifest in physical behaviors and thoughts. CBT is not about curing mental illness. It’s about managing the symptoms. Once you’ve mastered that, there isn’t much else to do.
Of course, there are plenty of cases that require medication. But this does not mean that the symptoms are unimportant in treatment.
Hi Popa,
What a great comment – And your position is ignorance. And yet, you can’t even say why. It’s very easy to call stupid and not give an explanation why. People with an intelligence above age 3 are generally able to also explain their point so that they actually have some credibility, which you don’t. Here is the definition of empirical from webster
Now if you educate yourself and learn what empirical studies entail, they follow the scientific method and if efficacy of a treatment is proven, which CBT has been, then one can say with a nice amount of confidence that it is a reliable and valid form of treatment. Go educate yourself, if you’re capable of that.
link removed. next time post will be deleted. read the rules. -127
Anxiety or depression aren’t causes by negative behaviors or thinking. They are most likely biological illnesses. But their symptoms manifest in physical behaviors and thoughts. CBT is not about curing mental illness. It’s about managing the symptoms. Once you’ve mastered that, there isn’t much else to do.
Right, so I completely disagree with that assertion, and think it is the height of narishkeit.
livelovelaugh,
Thanks for writing that. Eloquence was never my thing 🙂
Popa,
Feel free to disagree. Just letting you know, when there is clear empirical evidence in support of something, calling it narishkeit won’t change it. In fact, arguing against it makes someone look plain ignorant.
Oh, and just what empirical evidence is there for the narishkeit that depression is biological? None.
Google serotonin hypothesis. And neurogenesis.
But I’m confused. Do you believe that depression is an illness? Because you don’t think it’s cognitive, behavioral or biological.
Popa, you really are a completely ignorant person. If you knew anything about neuropsychology, you would know that there are MANY psychological disorders that have biological bases, depression included. Depression is most often treated with SSRI’s – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor. These inhibit the “feel good” neurotransmitter in the brain, serotonin, from being re-absorbed, thus in layman’s terms, leaving more of it out in the brain to help the person feel good. The reason these work is because often people with depression either fail to produce the correct amounts of these neurotransmitters. And of course, CBT has also been shown empirically to help because as the people change their thought patterns (the cognitive part in CBT), they can produce more.
This is all said in layman’s terms for the uneducated people, like Popa. I’m done lecturing here. Popa, please stop shooting your mouth off and discouraging another person, a fellow Jew I might add, from seeking the help that he or his loved ones require. Go find somewhere else to get your kicks.
They don’t work.
Depression is most often treated with SSRI’s – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor. These inhibit the “feel good” neurotransmitter in the brain, serotonin, from being re-absorbed, thus in layman’s terms, leaving more of it out in the brain to help the person feel good. The reason these work is because often people with depression either fail to produce the correct amounts of these neurotransmitters
Of course. And the reason Tylenol relieves headaches is these people’s brain fails to produce the correct amount of Tylenol.
Before calling me ignorant, did you stop for even one second to consider that maybe depression causes there to be less serotonin, rather than being caused by it?
If I get angry, don’t you think that releases different neurotransmitters in my brain? So am I angry because of the neurotransmitters, or because I stubbed my toe?
I’m trying to help my fellow jews, and prevent them from wasting time and money with charlatans instead of going for real therapy.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.