Cause For Teens At Risk?

Health, you’re right, it should be done. That’s why we are talking about it. Teens need mentors. While some are able to just flow with things, there are others who need someone to guide them. Someone they can turn to for questions or just to have a listening ear.

These mentors are out there, we just need to find them. I feel it can be anyone who qualifies like an older, wiser friend, a rebitzen or rabbi, or someone else in the community. I know someone in my community who is like a big brother to many teens.

I agree; so how come they don’t do it? They didn’t do it in the story that I posted and they don’t do it in most frum schools.

Health, I believe people are generally slow to change. I believe that sooner or later schools will have mentors for their students. Unfortunately it’s a monkey see monkey do type of world. The idea of a mentor is something that needs to catch on and then I believe all of the schools will have one. I think it will be a quite a number of years though before this happens.

My daughters’ school has a couple of women who work with younger kids that need extra TLC. They talk while they do arts and crafts. But the parents need to request it if there is no obvious problem with their child. I requested that one of my daughters go to one of the women. I felt she needed a little TLC in the school environment itself, to boost her self esteem and it worked wonders.

Parents need to be on top of these things too.

I just would like to clarify (as others have in these 5 pages of discussion), that the rabbeim that harm children are a minority. I myself (and the other bochurim who were/are in the yeshiva) have had amazing and wonderful rabbeim who showed me a love for Torah and Yiddishkeit, and would answer any question asked. To these rabbeim I owe so much.

Firstly, aries2756, Why are you ‘paseling up’ the whole yeshiva system?

It seems to me that you had a bad experience in your yeshiva days.

Kids nowadays all have someone to talk to if not an older mentor or friend, a hotline, a program, something.

In every yeshiva their is at least ONE RABBI that can be trusted.

I know from my yeshiva days there was always someone to talk to.

Now, whether hypocrisy of the Yeshiva, system, the yiddishkeit they are taught, is correct thats a different story.

Unfortunately, we are all hypocrites to some extent. We all sin.

When a father yells at his son not to talk during davening, and then turns around to discuss business with his friend, that is hypocritical, and that sends a more damaging message then non kosher cell phones and internet in my book.

but thanks 4 your concern

Not usually a big talker but felt i had to get this out there. Attended quote “top notch, high end, brand name” brooklyn yeshiva and mesivta.

Elementary school was okay – obviously the substandard english studies but overall most of the rabbiem seemed to genuinely care about their talmidim. But it all changed in 8th grade and went slowly downhill from there. 8th grade rebbe says “you know, wearing a polo shirt to yeshiva is what younger kids do”. No further comments about why I should or shouldnt dress a certain way or why I should even care. Then I had a 9th grade rebbe who could explain the deepest r’chaim during a shuir but I dont think I said more than good morning rebbe the entire year. I know 9th grade is an important time for torah growth, but where was the rebbe who was also my friend? Especially during a first year of high school when so much is changing for a talmid? But it was great that 2 nights a week we stayed in yeshiva until 8:30, and on Thursdays until 10! Because its important that 13 year olds have an outlet.

10th grade was worse as the rebbe was more than a joke. shuir? bad. social skills? worse. Commitment to the job? well I assume hes been showing up at 1030 every morning for years -yeshiva started at 930- so clearly there’s nothing wrong with that. 11th grade is where the anti was really upped. Now remember boys, everyone wear a white shirt “because your bnei torah”. Well what is a ben torah? Do you want to get into that rebbe? Or not really for now? And english studies? sorry – youll do that 2 days a week from 5-7 because that will not be needed in your future life. And of course – staying in yeshiva every night until 10. because we were such masmidim. In truth, we would sit in the lunchroom every night until the mashgiach found us and asked we go to beis medrash. But nothing was ever said, nor did anyone think, maybe this isnt the best situation for us? 12th grade was the ultimate disaster. Imagine your rebbe chasing you down in his car, because he saw you “eating in a pizza shop” (eating with 2 other boys from yeshiva, nothing more). Im not kidding. Or yelling because he saw us not wearing a hat in the street (by davening of course we did) and we were certainly on the path to being a ben sorer. We were taught all these rules, but no explanations, and certainly no meaning or feeling behind any of it.

The kicker of course was when it was time to leave yeshiva and 12th grade rebbe wanted to know the plans. Well I was going to go to a “college yeshiva” where I could learn 2 sedorim and go to school at night. And his response? “you know, that decision really disappoints me because I really think you had the potential to BE SOMETHING”. Just like that, I was written off. Needless to say, I am scared to ever send a child of mine to todays yeshivas but what choice do I really have. And the biggest regret I have today is simply that it would have been nice to actually learn something about why I am and should continue to be a frum jew while in yeshiva.

Tam Mahu Omer:

I would say he went to a much rougher yeshiva then average, not his specific experience. I could name a yeshiva or two that had similar rules in my day, (like daven in your dorm before walking into BM without a hat on) but most of them are OK (I would think).

frum attorney: When you choose a yeshiva for your child, make sure it fits your hashkafic outlook. You don’t have to send to the best, you have to send to the right one for you and your child.

Gavra, I hate to say this, but today, it is very difficult to “choose” a yeshiva. Unfortunately today, the yeshiva chooses you. YOU apply and if they like your nose they take you, if not you apply to another, and another, and another, until you get in. And then, if you don’t like what is going on you are afraid to say anything because you fear your child will get kicked out, and if your child gets kicked out no one else will take him.

That is what happens in today’s yeshivas.

Tam: Good point, but the change usually happens once they get older, not in elementry school.

aries2756: B”H I don’t live in an area like that. It may be true for you, though.

You could also attempt to get in via the “large donation” method.

frum attorney, I’m glad you were smart enough to do what you felt was right for you by going to a “college yeshiva”.

It’s important to remember that the yeshiva must fit the teen and it seems to me the Yehiva you had different (I’m not talking about right or wrong – I’m saying DIFFERENT) standards that you had.

I agree with you that yeshivas (and schools too) should also have the option of hashkafa classes for those of us who want to know the WHY not just the HOW.

When a father yells at his son not to talk during davening, and then turns around to discuss business with his friend, that is hypocritical, and that sends a more damaging message then non kosher cell phones and internet in my book.

Agreed. And even if it has the appearance of being holy and proper it can still come back to bite you.

A personal example:

A few years ago, I would often open up a mishnayos during Chazaras HaShatz. I did this for a while until one day I caught my oldest reading a novel during Chazaras HaShatz. When I told him that it was inappropriate to read during ChS, he responded that I did it, so why couldn’t he? I tried (at first) to justify that my reading was different since I was reading something that was Torah, but in the end, I had to concede the point that he was right. I told him that his point was valid, I was wrong, and that, as of right then, I would no longer be learning during ChS.

Since then, I do not learn during ChS and follow the Chazan in the siddur.

The Wolf

Tam Mahu Omer, you are right. You have a point.

That’s why I always say any institution that humans create cannot be free of flaws because each individual needs a different mehalach. It must work for the majority for if we cater to each individual’s need then it’s going to be a disaster.

Yes, kids are taught that if they do mitzvos they get rewards. However, for whatever reason while they did mitzvos bad things happened to them and they turned off the derech. Their questions are, why did these things happen to me, or my family and/or friends when we were all following the Torah, being good little Jews, doing mitzvos etc. The argument just doesn’t hold water. You can’t use that kind of logic on kids. Why do kids die young, what did a 3 year old do to deserve death? Kids have questions and need answers, they are not capable of blind faith. The more you ignore their questions, the more questions they have. Hashem is a concept to many, Hashem is not tangible and when FRUM Jews do not role model the exemplary behavior they are supposed to the concept of Hashem being a loving caring G-d that will reward them and not hurt them becomes a foreign concept.