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Saying that a woman is allowed to learn but a woman is not allowed to be taught is essentially saying she’s not allowed to learn. You can’t learn anything, especially Gemara, without a teacher. If she is allowed to learn when she wants to learn, then obviously she is allowed to be taught. Saying otherwise is illogical
Perhaps if a woman can learn on her own, then it is permissible. If she needs to be taught, then it isn’t permissible.
If you are saying it is impossible for a woman to learn gemora on her own, I disagree with you. There are woman who have the intellect to do so.
Simcha: S”A says not to teach her.
PAA: Are you suggesting Chazal got it wrong in asserting it is bad?
Trust- Even our greatest gedolim had rebbeim. Is it possible for a woman to learn without a teacher? Of course. But it’s also more likely that they will misunderstand many things without a teacher. Same thing with boys. If you want to learn anything properly, you need a teacher.
Lior- like I said before, S”A also says that they receive reward for learning it. So you have to reconcile the two. Saying she is allowed to learn but no one is allowed to teach her is illogical and certainly not what the S”A meant.
And if I understand PAA correctly, he is saying that Chazal knew that in their time that it was bad, but since they understood that the reality can change, they refrained from making a formal prohibition. Hence, the S”A never says it is assur for them to learn or it is assur for anyone to teach them.
I’m not (although I am curious what your response would be if I was). I am saying that Chazal assered that it was bad, and it was bad. But that doesn’t mean that it will always be bad under all circumstances, or that it can’t be overridden by something even more bad or that on an individual basis it’s also bad.
If you were saying that (and thankfully you’re not), I would say you’re nuts. If someone is suggesting (are you?) that it used to be bad for females to be taught TSB”P but now it is no longer bad, how would or could they explain why it used to be bad?
It’s one thing when Chazal state a Metzios and then we see that our Metzios is different. It’s quite another thing to give a reason by making up a Metzios and then say that by us it is different.
If you actually look at their relationship from quotes and incidents you don’t rally get the picture that they considered the women uneducated or of lower intelligence.
By the way, many of the above comments, including the long ones, are a display of the Chachma Bapelech. (There, I said it.)
DY: If she wants to learn and asks you to teach her, that’s no different than her learning on her own. The point is that the impetus came from her, not was forced upon her.
Sam: It doesn’t say “if a man forces he daughter to learn gemorah”.
Rather it says, if a man teachers his daughter……..
Lior:
When you say that you would say that I’m nuts, would that be because I would be saying that Chazal made a mistake, or because I would be saying that specifically in this inyan they made a mistake?
As to your question, see what I have written:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/2#post-532676
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/2#post-532721
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-532868
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-532884
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-532885
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-533026
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-533068
And as I quoted the Lubavitcher Rebbe there:
???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????”? (???? ?? ????? ??????
??????? ???) ????? ?????”? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? “???? ??? ???????” ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?????”? ??? ????? ??? ?”? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????”? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????”? ?????? ????? ???? (??? ?? ???) ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ???”? ???’ ???? ??????? ?????? ????????? (“???????”) ???? ?????? ??????
Trust:
That’s why we have the Maharil:
?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? i.e. she shows that her kavana is good. There is no difference in her kavana if she opens an Artscroll, or asks her father to teach her.
And the Derisha:
??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? i.e. she takes herself out of the rov which again there would be no difference if she opened an Artscroll or asked father to teach her.
And R’ Elyashiv:
???”? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ???”? ??”? ?”? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? i.e. by showing up she shows that she can learn. Again no difference between Artscroll and her Father.
Sam, that’s not what the Prisha says:
?????, ??”?, ??”?, ?”? ??: ??? ?? ???? ?????, ??? ????? ????? ?????, ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??”? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??”?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14272&st=&pgnum=365&hilite=
DaasYochid:
See my last post. Though I did mistakenly write Derisha instead of Perisha.
Well, maybe Artscroll is not allowed to teach them either.
The reasoning of the Prisha would apply even if she asked, until she proves that she can learn “?? ?????”.
I think this is what your quote from R’ Elyashiv says as well.
To summarize, I think we all agree that we can’t impose it upon them, which means Gemara class in elementary or high school would be out.
I think Sam and Simcha would say optional classes, say in college or seminary, would be okay, but I think any kind of encouragement is assur; it has to purely come from her. I don’t know what Patur would say about this.
Further, the way I read the Prisha, even if she asks, that is not enough to prove that she won’t be ????? ????? ????? ????; she has to actually learn by herself first, At that point, if she demonstrates that she was???? ???? ?? ?????, it would seem reasonable that a man could teach her further.
DaasYochid:
According to your understanding of the Perisha, it should be assur for her to learn herself as well because she doesn’t know if she will be ????? ????? ????? ????. In other words both her and any potential teacher are in the same position of not knowing what her learning will lead to. So it would either be assur for both or muttar for both. Unless you are saying that it is in fact assur for her to learn herself, but once she learns herself b’issur she can prove that she is capable of learning and then anyone can teach her. But I really don’t think that’s what the Perisha is saying.
And I think it’s even more clear from the Maharil that as long as she takes the initiative, it demonstrates ???? ?????? ???? and it’s ok.
The R’ Elyashiv is from He’aros Chagiga 3a.
I would tend to agree that we can’t and shouldn’t impose it on them. Perhaps we shouldn’t even be imposing what we do impose. I would think that optional classes are ok.
Decades ago there was a rebbitzen in Brooklyn who wanted to learn gemara but couldn’t find anyone to teach her (not even her husband). So she enrolled at JTS and learned with Prof. David Weiss Halivni (with the approval of her husband — for some reason academic study seems to have engendered less objection than traditional study). Eventually she did find orthodox teachers and at the time of her death she was on her third daf yomi cycle. Interestingly, she rarely TALKED about gemara outside of the shiurim she attended.
PAA,
“?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????”
But she does.
DaasYochid:
That’s a reference to her kavana, not to her ability. Your argument was about her ability. And if your argument is in fact about kavana no different knowledge of her kavana after she learns herself than he did before she learns herself, yet you assumed that it would be ok for him to teach her once she already learns herself.
This is the problem with having multiple threads discussing the same issue. I’m putting this post in this thread because there is more debate in this thread, but I quoted more mekoros in http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart
Oh well. Anyway, at the very end of ???? ???? is a response to a woman who wanted to learn Torah. He first says:
??? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???
But then he gets down to business and writes:
????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?”? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????? [emphasis added]
??? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????’ ????? ?’ ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?’ ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????’ ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?”? ????’
???? ????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ???’ ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?????
?????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?”? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ?”? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? [emphasis added]
And no, this is not a modern feminist; this was printed 462 years ago.
I think you emphasized the wrong part.
How so?
????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?”? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???
???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????’ ????? ?’ ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?’ ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????’ ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?”? ????’
???? ????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ???’ ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?????
?????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?”? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ?”? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???????
I think that is only referring to ????? ????? ???????.
Or, clearly, any case where the motivation isn’t pure.
I didn’t say that girls should learn if their motivations are pure. However, I think that when he says ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? he is specifically referring to ???????. It doesn’t really make sense to say that there is a correlation between impure intentions and ???? ????. He is saying that there is a situation (“?? ??? ????”) in which ???? ?????. Meaning that not in this situation there is not ???? ????? (or at least not ???? ???? ?????). While there is no reason why impure motivations should cause ??????, it is very logical that ?????? should cause ??????.
Also, it does seem from “??? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????” that he is assuming that it is possible for us to judge each individual girl.
So I’m not sure that we’re really arguing.
Just wait for my next post for that.
The ??? ??? in his commentary to Yerushalmi Sotah 3:4, compiled a list of some of the women scholars throughout the generations:
??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???”? ???”? ?”? ???? ?”? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???’ ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???’ ??? ???? ???? ???? ?”? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? (??????? ??? ?????) ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???’ ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ???”? ????”? ??”? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????”? ???? ????? ???? ??”? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ???’ (?????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??”? ?????? ?”?) ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?”? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?”? ????? ???”? ????”? ???? ? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????”? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???”? ?????? ???? ??”? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???”? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??”? ?”? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ???”? ??”? ????? ???? ?”? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ?”? ???????? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???”? ??”? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?”? ?????? ??? ???? ???”? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??”? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????”? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?????
Summary of the list:
1) ?????? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????
2) ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????”? ???? ????? ???? ??”?
3) ?? ?”? ???? ?? ???
4) ??? ???? ??????”? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????????
5) ???? ?? ???”? ?????? ????
6) ???? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???
7) ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?”? ???
8) ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??”?
9) ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????
10) ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???”? ??????
11) ??? ????? ??? ???? ??????
12) ?? ????? ????? ????? ???
I like #12.
It’s not good if you have a lot more report card quotes than ???? ?????.
Why ever not?
Okay, it’s fine.
Why isn’t the Prisha’s mother on that list?
I don’t know who the Alei Tamar is, but the Tzitz Eliezer’s mother (grandmother? I don’t remember) probably also qualifies.
Why ever so?
Sam2:
I think you made the following mistake: in the hakdama to the Derisha/Perisha he mentions his mother. But the hakdama was written by his son, so it’s actually talking about the Perisha’s wife who is in fact on the list – ???? ?? ???”? ?????? ????.
Oh and I forgot to mention (I got distracted by other things) that the Torah Temima in Parsha Eikev is not too happy with the ???? ????.
(?’ ???? ???? (????? ??? ?’ ??? ???:
????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ????????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????
?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ????? “????? ?? ???” ??? ??? ???? ????”? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????”? “???? ???? ?????” ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??
Leket Yosher Yoreh Deiah p. 37:
??????? ????? ????? ?”? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?’ ????? ???? ?”? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????
(referring to the daughter in law of the Terumas Hadeshen)
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49439&st=&pgnum=87
Two letters from Rabbi Joseph Ber Soloveitchik to Rabbi Leonard Rosenfeld:
“Dear Rabbi Rosenfeld,
I acknowledge receipt of your letter. In my answer to your previous inquiry concerning the permissibility of instruction of girls in Talmud I stressed that unless I am assured in advance by the school administration that my recommendations will be followed I would not take the trouble to investigate the matter. Since such an official assurance has been withheld (your letter did not contain any such commitment) I must decline to consider the controversial problem. The reason for my reluctance to engage in this controversial issue is the unique stand taken by many of our Jews on matters of Law and tradition. We have reached a stage at which party lines and political ideologies influence our halakhic thinking to the extent that people cannot rise above partisan issue to the level of Halakhah-objectivity. Some are in a perennial quest for “liberalization” of the Law and its subordination to the majority opinion of a political legislative body, while others would like to see the Halakhah fossilized and completely shut out of life. I am not inclined to give any of these factions an opportunity for nonsensical debates.”
“Dear Rabbi Rosenfeld:
Please accept my apologies for not answering your letters sooner. The delay was due to my overcrowded schedule. As to your question with regard to a curriculum in a coeducational school, I expressed my opinion to you long ago that it would be a very regrettable oversight on our part if we were to arrange separate Hebrew courses for girls. Not only is the teaching of Torah she-be-al peh to girls permissible but it is nowadays an absolute imperative. This policy of discrimination between the sexes as to subject matter and method of instruction which is still advocated by certain groups within our Orthodox community has contributed greatly to the deterioration and downfall of traditional Judaism. Boys and girls alike should be introduced to the inner halls of Torah she-be-al peh.
I hope to prepare in the near future a halakhic brief on the same problem which will exhaust the various aspects of the same. In the meantime I heartily endorse a uniform program for the entire student body.”
“This policy of discrimination between the sexes as to subject matter and method of instruction which is still advocated by certain groups within our Orthodox community has contributed greatly to the deterioration and downfall of traditional Judaism.”
That’s an interesting comment as it was written 40(?) years ago. Time has proven that comment wrong as it is in fact the communities that continue that discrimination between the sexes as to subject matter and method of instruction that have grown by leaps and bounds and enormously prospered over the last 40 years whereas the communities that have broken those barriers down and no longer discriminate in the educational realm have witnessed several phenomenons: many of their members have moved their affiliation to the right into communities that continue the tradition of treating male and female religious educational subjects very differently (notably regarding Talmud study and Torah she-be-al peh), while another portion of their communities have deteriorated towards the edges or beyond of Orthodoxy in adopting practices from the non-Orthodox movements, especially but not exclusively in areas relating to gender and Judaism. Overall, though, the Orthodox communities that liberalized girls education in the last 40 or so years while remaining Orthodox have significantly shrunk as fraction of the Orthodox community.
nolongersingle,
That psak from Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l, which is one of the few halachic positions he stated in writing during his lifetime, was more like 60 years ago. And the communities that have schools like he himself opened and also insisted on for Rabbi Rosenfeld’s community have grown by leaps and bounds. For example, when Rav Soloveitchik wrote that letter, Riverdale did not have a single Orthodox synagogue. Today it is full of Orthodox synagogues and all are packed every Shabat.
charliehall: How many Orthodox schoolgirls living in Riverdale learn Gemorah today in elementary and high school?
The Chida in ‘??? ??? ???? ? writes:
???????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????
which indicates that it’s dependent on the individual woman.
See the whole piece for context:
It’s ironic but the ideology that today opposes Torah shebealpeh for girls opposed 120 years agobthe creation of Bais Yaacov or any formal Jewish education for girls
It’s ironic but the ideology that today opposes Torah shebealpeh for girls opposed 120 years agobthe creation of Bais Yaacov or any formal Jewish education for girls
It’s more ironic that you think you are aligned with the people who started beis yaakov, while if they were aligned with you, they would have done what you are advocating.
Checkmate.
PBA, I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. I’m just pointing out that people who oppose expanded education for girls aren’t aware that Bais Yaacov was opposed for same reason.
You point that out as if it’s some type of dichotomy.
“How many Orthodox schoolgirls living in Riverdale learn Gemorah today in elementary and high school?”
All who go to SAR, and most who go to other schools.
“expanded education for girls”
While there were Jewish schools that gave girls a Torah education in Germany and America before Sarah Schenirer was born, I think that it was Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l who instituted teaching gemara for girls. He made a point of teaching the first gemara shiur to women at Stern College himself — there is a famous photograph of him leading that first shiur.
popa:
While they might not be aligned with him, I don’t think you can prove it from “they would have done what you are advocating”, as I pointed out:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/2#post-532677
lesschumras:
Why do you assume they aren’t aware? Perhaps they hold that learning gemara is a bigger leap than starting Bais Yaakov and is unnecessary.
All I’m saying is that in 100 years, if Moshiach hasn’t arrived, girls will be learning Gemarah and no one will remember a controversy
LC: Nah. There’s no one held as a gadol (in terms of hanhagah) by the yeshivish’e velt who thinks it’s a good idea.
There are many Orthodox shules that offer Gemara classes for women. We are not living in the 18th century. Women are smart and they want to use their brains for things other than bottles, diapers and shopping lists.
Besides, knowledge is power.
?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ? ??? ?
????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??’ ?”? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???????? ??’ ?????? ????”? [??”? ???”? ??] ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?”? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????’ ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?”? ???? ?”? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????”? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??”? ????? ?”? ?’ ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???”? ???????
???? ?”? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ??”? ????? ??”? ??’ ?”? ?”? ?”? ????”? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????
?? ??? ?
????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?”? ???? ????
????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ??”? ??”? (???? ????? ????? ?”?) ????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???’ ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??”? ???’ ??”? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ??
?? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???
Rabbi Reuven Ziegler, Tradition Fall 2010, “Understand the Years of Each Generation”: A Eulogy for Mori ve-Rabbi ha-Rav Yehuda Amital Zt”l p.81:
In 1995, I was present when R. Amital told a gathering of the kollel that he did not feel women needed to study Talmud; his grandmother and mother had been very pious Jews without it. A year or two later, he addressed a women’s learning program with the words, “You know, I used to think that Talmud study for women was unnecessary, but now I think it is absolutely essential!”
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