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I really need to know about the places in halocho where it says women should do mezuman, and i remember there was a thread where ppl posted the sources, does anyone know which thread? Or can you please repost the source?? Thanx so much!
We pasken that women shouldn’t make a mezumen.
I paskin that all women over the age of three should be included in a mezumin
We pasken that women shouldn’t make a mezumen.
Source? (Specifically when talking about three or more women eating without any men present.)
The Wolf
WM: The SA OC 199:6,7 says it is optional and the Mishne Brura ibid., 16 writes “Apparently, the Rabbis did not impose Birchas Hazimun upon women when they eat by themselves because they are generally unfamiliar with the proceedings.”
Rav Scheinberg said the minhag is that women don’t.
ski: Just curious why you don’t want any sources that say they shouldn’t?
says it is optional
Which is a far distance from “shouldn’t make a mezuman.”
Rav Scheinberg said the minhag is that women don’t.
And I’d be willing to bet dollars to donuts that there are others who pasken that they may.
The Wolf
That’s the wrong way about it. We don’t first decide what we want to do, and then go researching for sources to support what you want to do.
sk: “because they are generally unfamilliar with the proceedings”
Mostly everyone is unfamillar with the true concept of zimun as depicted in the gemara and rishonim. The current practice is a relict of the Halacha.
YD and Sushe: No sources exist saying that they shouldn’t. It’s clear everywhere from the Gemara on down that it’s a R’shus. They can do it if they want. The Rosh (quoted in the Be’ur Halacha) even goes farther to say that they should, but not quite have to. The only reason people Assur it nowadays is because there are many who do it for feminist and non-Halachic reasons, and therefore people want to keep Halacha-keeping women away from that. There is no source, anywhere, with any valid Halachic reason, not to. It’s entirely a thing to keep us away from those trying to change Yiddishkeit. So if a woman does it (And I think they should; why not? It’s a Mitzvah that Pashtus is a Safek Kiyum D’Oraisa.), just don’t make a big deal out of it. If you want to do it then the point isn’t to make waves or say that women are the same as men. If you do it, do it because it’s a Mitzvah and don’t make a huge deal about it in your community.
The right way is to ask your regular Rov, rather than decide beforehand what answer you want, and just accept whatever he tells you.
Here’s a good discussion on the issue (if the mods will allow it through):
http://www.chaburas.org/zimun3.html
It brings many opinions, most of which state that woman can make a zimun for themselves. There are even opinions (which we don’t pasken like) that a woman can lead a zimun with men in it (the Ritvah says this).
It seems the accepted practice is that woman can make a zimun if there are no men there, but they are not obligated to do so. Even if there are 10 women, they don’t say elokeinu in the zimun, as that is a dovor shebikdusha.
That’s the wrong way about it. We don’t first decide what we want to do, and then go researching for sources to support what you want to do.
Though this is precisely what those who want to get drunk on Purim do.
Some people include women in their mezuman. Others pay them thru their bank instead.
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