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Tagged: grammar police
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December 28, 2011 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #601356soliekMember
soliek im teaching this kid at Our Place GED english and im very good at english even though it doesnt usually come across in most of my posts (it should in the occasional article i post tho :P) but the problem isnt my knowledge of the english language or how to convey that knowledge, its convincing my guy and any future guys that english and grammar DOES matter in the real world.
i had a good start yesterday which is when i gave my first lesson, im not gonna go into details here in the OP cuz that would make it way too long, but i was wondering if anyone had any tips, any ideas that i may have overlooked or something i dont know about to help me convince this guy that english does matter. soliekyea…any ideas? english teachers?
December 28, 2011 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #839055TheGoqParticipantsoliek are you a lefty? (no this has nothing to do with the topic at hand im just curious)
December 28, 2011 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #839056oomisParticipantI cannot recall the sentence, but there is actually a sentence that proves this idea. When not punctuated correctly, it means the exact opposite of what it intends to convey. If someone reacalls what this sentence might be, it is a terrific example of why good grammar and punctuation are not obsolete.
December 28, 2011 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #839057midwesternerParticipantDon’t know how to put all of the above together. But if English and grammar means so little to you that you can write like you just did above, then you’ll never be able to impress its importance on students.
It is not a matter of book knowledge. You’re not asking about that. You’re asking about impressing the importance on them. First impress it onto yourself and live it. Maybe then you can preach it.
December 28, 2011 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #839058ToiParticipantbring in afew copies of Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for your students to read. read it first nad censor as necessary. it hysterical, and should get them thinking.
December 28, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #839059moi aussiMemberYou don’t need advice from English teachers, you need advice from a psychologist.
December 28, 2011 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #839060midwesternerParticipantPerhaps Oomis is referring to the following old tale:
A black and white panda bear walks into a restaurant. He orders a quick meal. After polishing it off, he pulls out a pistol, fires a few shots in the air, and walks out the front door.
Another patron turns to the owner and asks, “What was that?”
So the owner pulls out a poorly punctuated guide to animals, and flips to the P section. There it states: Panda bear: Eats, shoots, and leaves.
There is actually a cute grammar book titled, “Eats, Shoots and Leaves,” after that old joke.
December 28, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #839061ToiParticipantoomis- a woman without her man is nothing
is either- A woman; without her, Man is nothing.
or
A woman, without her man, is nothing.
December 28, 2011 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #839062soliekMembermidwesterner…you clearly have never read anything i’ve written (other than my posts here on the forum)
lol that too aussie 😛
basically what i did yesterday was a few writing exercises. i wrote four words, skateboard, meter, melon, pen (or whatever) on a piece of paper and asked the guy to tell me what it meant. so he spun some tale about those four objects and i told him “well, you couldnt do much with those four nouns on their own, but once you added verbs, adverbs, adjectives, pronouns, and punctuation, it made perfect sense and told an interesting story”
so then i did another related word exercise where you take five objects in the room, write them down on paper, and write three sentences which include all five objects. so he did that, and then i did it, and the point was to show him how a random assortment of words with nor order, rhyme, or reason is worthless, but when structured–when you understand the rules and structure to writing and how sentences are constructed–you are given infinite possibilities. the freedom perceived when disregarding grammar is actually limiting because there is very little you can express without understanding language, structure, and grammar, but once you “confine” yourself within specific grammatical boundaries, there is no end to what you can say.
and then i kind of drew the parallel to the real world, that a life without structure, without guidelines, may seem free when in actuality it is severely limiting because you don’t know and cannot know what to do with yourself. but add some structure, add some guidelines, and there is no telling what you can accomplish in life.
the next exercise was reading Jabberwocky by Lewis Carrol. the idea being that Jabberwocky is meaningless, but because of its structure, the meaning is implied by the context. thus it is the structure which gives it meaning, not simply the juxtaposition of random words. and then i had him swap all the meaningless words in Jabberwocky with actual words and had him read it again, and then we did that again, and the point came across that by understanding structure you can express absolutely anything.
then, just for fun and because it follows a similar idea, we did some mad libs 😀
it was all mamash siyata d’shmaya because i had no idea what i was doing and i had been planning to do GED prep, but we got sidetracked and i had to wing it 😛 baruch hashem it worked out very well 😀
December 28, 2011 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #839063OneOfManyParticipantHey – I like what you did with Jabberwocky! That’s a really good idea! Sounds like you did a really good job. 🙂
December 28, 2011 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #839064midwesternerParticipantSoliek: That is obviously correct. Where else would I have ever (knowingly, at least) seen anything written by you? If you’d be willing to share, I’d be happy to comment. However, why anyone would care about my comments without knowing who I am, is totally beyond me.
My point was not challenging your knowledge of the material. You said in the beginning that you were confident about both your knowledge, and your ability to convey it. I conceded that in my orginal response. Your concern was convincing your students that it matters. To that I say, if you know, you can teach. But you cannot preach, and have devarim nichnasim el halev, unless they are yotzim min halev. If it would really be in your lev, then it would come out in every format.
I’m not talking about typos. We’re all human, and we all make mistakes. I don’t believe in becoming the grammar police either; I’ll leave that for Haifagirl. (Haven’t heard from her much lately!) But whatever you teach, if you want your students to value the subject, you must as well. If you just want them to learn rules of the road, then if you know them you can convey them. But if you want to teach value, then value it yourself.
December 28, 2011 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #839065soliekMemberi got the idea from an excellent book written by stanley fish titled how to write a sentence and how to read one
toi: im gonna use that 😀
December 28, 2011 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #839066tahiniMemberSoliek, the examples of how you approached your lesson sound spot on to me.
I teach and know it is not always easy to appreciate at first how it is going to go with new students, especially boys! Boys do not always relay how much they may be gaining or enjoying a lesson which may require creativity on their part, but I suspect you may be pleasantly surprised. You sound really enthusiastic and full of innovative ideas, go for it!
December 29, 2011 1:54 am at 1:54 am #839067oomisParticipantBoth Midwesterner and Toi have the proper quotes to which I was referring. Eats, Shoots, and Leaves IS a book which illustrates the point well, and Toi’s sentence is the one about which I was thinking.
December 29, 2011 3:39 am at 3:39 am #839068koillel101MemberThere are many emails being passed around that have signs in different countires that are written with poor englaish grammar and therefore do not say what the writers intended for them to.
EX; Employees must return to work before washing hands.
Instead of: Employees must wash hands before returning to work.
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These are entertaining to read and also make the message loud and clear.
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