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For those who travel for work, how do you deal with some of the obstacles that a Frum Jew must face?
Do you try to find a Minyan or just daven alone?
Do you bring food or buy on the road? (even if there is no kosher restaurants you can always find plenty of Kosher food at a grocery store with the OU on it)…
What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?
Shaking hands with the opposite sex in a business setting?
Just curious how others deal with this….
“Do you try to find a Minyan or just daven alone?”
Minyan.
“Do you bring food or buy on the road? (even if there is no kosher restaurants you can always find plenty of Kosher food at a grocery store with the OU on it)…”
Bring and buy OU when needed.
“What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?”
I don’t understand the question. Going to a non-kosher restaurant is not an option.
“Shaking hands with the opposite sex in a business setting?”
No.
What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?
I have asked this Shalia as it came up , and You order SALAD with No Dressing or Sharp Vegitibles (Like onions or Radishes)
I have been in many parts of the US
Kosher Food Can be difficult to find, the best thing to bring is Labriyut or these Meal Mart Meals that are double wrapped and can be heated in a microwave
You will not find a Minyan in many parts of the US, maybe in Big cities you will, but it might not be anywhere near where you are staying, You will probably be staying downtown and the minyanim are on the outskirts and can be difficult to find if you are not familiar with the area (GPS would definatly help)
Going into a treif restaurant (especially when sitting down and ordering to eat) is the classic example of maris ayin.
Chabad has minyanim in even small towns around the country and world.
Explaining shaking hands with the opposite gender is against your religion, is hardly a “petty excuse”.
mike – Are you asking for solutions?
boredinoffice – Is that your own psak regarding shaking hands?
@Zahavasdad – Labruite was horrible. I went to Pomegrnatae once and had them double wrap but was not worth the trouble especially if you are flying. A suitcase for food??
Eeees and I used the LaBriute meals when we went to Niagara Falls a few years ago. They weren’t too bad.
When we went to St. Thomas, we brought along our own meat and a small George Forman griller.
The Wolf
Labruit is nasty and I dont like it, but I mentioned it anyway as it is an option, Its also expensive like $11 a box
The Meal Mart ones are somewhat better and can be eaten at room tempature
FYI
While I am a little leary of doing this, A Major Rav told me and I had it Verified twice
If you get RAW SALMON (ONLY Salmon as its very indentifiable – No other Fish looks like it) and give it to a chef and have them double wrap it, they can prepare it for you.
For those who travel for work, how do you deal with some of the obstacles that a Frum Jew must face?
Do you try to find a Minyan or just daven alone?
Try to find, but Iv’e been in places where the closest Minyan is a plane ride away (not even a Chabad)
Do you bring food or buy on the road? (even if there is no kosher restaurants you can always find plenty of Kosher food at a grocery store with the OU on it)…
Bring. Don’t trust that anything will be available when you get there (unless there is a frum community).
What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?
I go and don’t eat anything, not even the water, and have nothing in the spot in front of me.
Shaking hands with the opposite sex in a business setting?
Don’t.
I should have said Rav Feivel Cohen
Has maris ayin been repealed from our laws?
Wolf:
When we went to St. Thomas, we brought along our own meat and a small George Forman griller.
Joseph:
Has maris ayin been repealed from our laws?
Why? Did you really think that I was grilling George Foreman in the grill? Would anyone think that?
The Wolf
I am not sure going and having nothing including water is a good idea.
Some restaurants have minimum order amounts per person and you have to pay if you order or not (This might be stealing) or the waitress get no tip even though she probably asked you if you wanted anything more than once and you didnt order anything. She still had to set up your place and clean up after you
If you are unwilling to order the salad, I think the Coke or a Beer (If an appropriate situation – ie others are drinking a beer) might be a better choice
“If you get RAW SALMON (ONLY Salmon as its very indentifiable – No other Fish looks like it) and give it to a chef and have them double wrap it, they can prepare it for you.’
I’m sure there are details left out of this simple solution:
Zahavasdad,
R’ Feivel told you it was ok to get a salad? What about bedikas tolaim in the lettuce?
Are the posters who eat in treif restaurants and don’t believe in maris ayin Orthodox?
From the OP:
Do you try to find a Minyan or just daven alone?
That would depend on both the trip’s required schedule of events and the availability/closeness of a minyan. For example, if I didn’t have a rental car and the closest minyan was driving distance only, I would most likely not fool with an unfamiliar public transit system to get there.
Do you bring food or buy on the road? (even if there is no kosher restaurants you can always find plenty of Kosher food at a grocery store with the OU on it)…
I’d map the location where I was staying before leaving to gain familiarity with the local grocery stores. I would also bring supplies.
What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?
I would request to have the meeting location at the hotel/office. Fortunately in my work, we don’t have business lunches/dinners like that, and if I’m invited, I can politely refuse or change the locale per my organization’s protocols, so I’ve never had to ask a shaila.
Shaking hands with the opposite sex in a business setting?
I would avoid it.
Note that these are my personal answers, not a directive for others.
WolfishMusings:
Joseph:
Has maris ayin been repealed from our laws?
Why? Did you really think that I was grilling George Foreman in the grill? Would anyone think that?
It seems apparent to me from the context that Joseph was referring to entering a non-kosher restaurant, not using a portable grill to prepare kosher meat. So unless you were grilling some meat on your portable grill and then bringing it into a non-kosher restaurant to eat, I don’t think he was referring to you.
my DH & I took several Meal Mart Meals with us on a trip & I really enjoyed them… the variety & the convenience of no refrigeration needed.
Are the posters who eat in treif restaurants and don’t believe in maris ayin Orthodox?
Please define “Orthodox.” There are probably some who would say that I’m not Orthodox because I’m using the internet.
The Wolf
I asked the exact Shalia and I was given the answer, I was surprised at the answer as I figured the answer was for sure no you cant go.
You are welcome to ask a Rav and ask about the Salad WITHOUT Onions or Radishes (Something to do with the sharpness somehow the sharpness goes into the knife)
While I was given the Salmon answer, I am unwilling to do it because of complications, but I was given that answer and I double checked it
It seems apparent to me from the context that Joseph was referring to entering a non-kosher restaurant, not using a portable grill to prepare kosher meat. So unless you were grilling some meat on your portable grill and then bringing it into a non-kosher restaurant to eat, I don’t think he was referring to you.
I know he wasn’t. Just kidding around a bit. ‘Tis called “humor” (although, I’ll admit, my humor is strange, unpredictable and rarely in good taste).
The Wolf
Please define “Orthodox.”
For the purposes of this discussion, someone who believes in maris ayin.
1) Some poskim allow the color of salmon to replace the normal simanim (scales), but some don’t.
2) I can’t understand why bishul akum isn’t a problem, as well as the spices (although there are ways around the knife problem).
3) The only salad which would not be problematic would, besides for not having anything sharp, would not have vegetables likely to have bugs (or dressing). Also, again, the knife is a problem for any vegetables, unless you can ascertain that it was properly cleaned.
4) Maris ayin might not apply according to some poskim, because it’s become common to meet business associates in a non-kosher restaurant. Eating something would make the problem worse, since the majority of foods (even salads) served are not kosher.
As Pac-Man said Maris Hayin IS a problem.
And besides that: salads have tolayim, salmon will be cooked by a goy (bishul akum) with treif ingredients, etc
For the purposes of this discussion, someone who believes in maris ayin.
Then your question of “Are the posters who eat in treif restaurants and don’t believe in maris ayin Orthodox?” is a tautology. That being the question, why even ask it?
The Wolf
Pac Man
I’m not sure about other areas but I heard that it’s not a problem in NYC because kosher meals can be brought into non-kosher restaurants (from Abigail’s, etc) and it’s a fairly common practice so maras ayin doesn’t apply.
I was told the Knife is not a problem because in Fancy restaurants the knives used for salad are not the same knives used for cooked stuff.
They have whats called a Salad Chef and the utensils used for Salads are not used for any other items
Wolf: I asked rhetorically.
If you were driving and you had a child in the back seat who was complaing they had to go to the Bathroom.
And you see a well known Fast Food restaurant
Would you stop so they kid could go, or would you say Maris Ayin and keep going maybe to a Gas Station which bathrooms arent as clean as the well known fast food restaurants
If this ain’t, what IS Maris Ayin?
Wolf: I asked rhetorically.
Somehow, I doubt that. I don’t believe that that was the definition of Orthodox that you had in mind when you asked the question.
But what do I know? In for a penny in for a pound, right? I’m no longer Orthodox according to your view because I’ve gone into the non-kosher restaurants on highway stops to use the bathroom.
The Wolf
Please define “Orthodox.”
For the purposes of this discussion, someone who believes in maris ayin.
Because all true Orthodox rabbonim when asked would not allow for an Israeli salad to be eaten in a non-kosher restaurant.
The ones that allow it have beards that you can pull down on the elastic and Peyos that are attached to their black hats. 🙂
(Had to get Rav Tuchman in somehow)
zsdad: You said you sat down in a treif restaurant and ate their food (salad) with a party of people (or at least another person). That isn’t a case of going in to only use the restroom for a child.
If you were driving and you had a child in the back seat who was complaing they had to go to the Bathroom.
Not a fair comparison; kavod habrios is docheh.
If this ain’t, what IS Maris Ayin?
Beef in almond milk, “kosher” cheeseburgers, fish blood, human blood, a non Jew doing work in your house on Shabbos even if he’s paid by the day, spreading out wet clothing on Shabbos…
shlishi-
An example of maaras eyin is serving a parve cheeseburger in your home, without placing proof of its parve status on the table. Walking into a treife roadside store is not, since it is well known that there are acceptable reasons to do so (e.g. use the restrooms, purchase a fountain soda/coffee perhaps). Note that I mention roadside as a way of avoiding the issue of a formal restaurant that probably would not allow such use of its premises.
I asked a Shalia and I was given an answer.
If you ask a Rav a question and get an answer you are supposed to follow it
Instead of trying to surmise what a Halacha might be, Why dont you ask your RAV and you can also ask about eating Salad without Sharp Vegatables Like Onions and Radishes and no Dressing.
DY & veteran: I am referring to not just walking into a treif restaurant to use the restroom, but to actually sitting down in it and ordering food. The difference is profound.
a parve cheeseburger
That actually wouldn’t be a problem since both the meat and cheese are fake.
In a former job, I had to go on quite a few business trips. I didn’t need a minyan, but for me the biggest challenge was traveling with my male boss. We flew together and stayed in the same hotel and I was never comfortable with it. It was one of the reasons I quit my job.
“If you were driving and you had a child in the back seat who was complaing they had to go to the Bathroom.”
I would remove any possible Jewish (frum) identifier before entering a treif establishment for anything.
I would remove any possible Jewish (frum) identifier before entering a treif establishment for anything.
Even if there are hundreds of other Jews entering the place at the same time and not removing their signs of Jewishness?
The Wolf
I go for lunch in treif restaurants every day with my non-jewish and non-observant colleagues. I drink soda, they eat pork.
Today we went to chinese, and they ate sushi. It looked really good.
On friday we went to a gyros place. It is pronounced yeeroes.
Last tuesday we didn’t go.
Last monday we went to a different chinese place.
I can’t remember before then.
But Jimmy Jones has free ice cream. Isn’t that cool?
I know he wasn’t. Just kidding around a bit. ‘Tis called “humor” (although, I’ll admit, my humor is strange, unpredictable and rarely in good taste).
The Wolf
I really don’t care what your humor taste like. The question is, is it Kosher and do you grill it on the George Foreman.
“Even if there are hundreds of other Jews entering the place at the same time and not removing their signs of Jewishness?”
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