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I’ve been dating a particular girl for a bit over a month now, and we’re really “struggling” with how to refer to each other and with how other people refer to us.
We’re both on the more yeshivish end of the spectrum, so “boyfriend/girlfriend” feels too modernish, frankly. And it feels like it comes with some negative connotations regarding negiah…
And “Chassan/Kallah” is just not true. We’re not yet engaged…
“Significant other,” in the meantime, feels too cold and robotic.
This is a MAJOR hole that the frum world needs to address. Can we brainstorm an appropriate term? Is there an apt word out there already that we’re missing? Do other cultures have a better term for this?
The one I’m seeing.
None of us have to know the gender. Besides, it’s not tznius.
If you’re too Yeshivish to accept boyfriend/girlfriend then “girl/boy I am currently seeing” should be right up your alleys.
I hope this thread is either a joke or a bad attempt at trolling.
boyfriend/girlfriend is a disgusting terminology for any Jew, especially one who purportedly is Torah observant.
How can anyone who isn’t a Chasan/Kallah (and aren’t married) even dream of calling themselves that?!
There is no other terminology because it is highly improper to call them a thing or to allude that they have any improper relationship, which giving them a joint term would clearly imply.
You shouldn’t even be making public that you are dating her, as that’s no third-party’s business and it wouldn’t be tznius to let any one know.
That’s all before the question whether you’re even “dating” too long before you need to make a decision one way or another.
In the early 29th century it would be said that the two of you are ‘keeping company’
The term companion is applicable to both of you
call it your shidduch as in going on a shidduch
Who are you talking to about each other already? Presumably, due to Tznius parameters, parents and mentors. With your parents, use his / her name. With mentors, say, “The Bachur / girl I’m going out with”.
How about just plain “the girl I am dating”. She is (hopefully) NOT your girlfreind or significant other since you are (again hopefully) only dating her to see if she is suitable for you to marry.
We as frum jews don’t date for dating purpose in itself it is just a way of information finding thru real life situations.
Or in Yeshivish lingo “hechsher mitzva”Dear Ujm,
I have boyfriends. My sister has girlfriends. What is not tznius about that?
To the extent you have to make any reference at all, just say “my friend”. In most cases the gender should be obvious to anyone you encounter so no need for “BOYfriend” or “Girlfriend”.
43 years ago, at Gush, I heard this referred to as “inyan”
“His inyan’s father is visiting…”Why not the woman I am seeing or dating?
@CTLAWYER It’s always fascinating to get a time-traveller’s perspective. Tell me, how affordable are the flying cars?
(Sorry… I couldn’t resist😉)
Courting, wooing…
Or ask your rav for advice.
29th century?
You guys know that the 9 is next to the 0 right?
In yeshiva we would refer to an unnamed girl as “Shprinza”. You could say “my Shprinza told ,me…” and people may understand what you mean. I don’t think there is a boy equivalent that has the same pizazz as Shrprinza (Shemerel?)
In unzerer Yeshivish circlesm it is pahsnisht to be dating anyone publicly until the engagement is announced and the Vort is scheduled. That includes being seen outside together or talking about the inyan to anyone but the Shadchan and your parents. Following that geder, there will not be any “how other people refer to us” scenarios. Once the deal is done, then you will become chossen-kallah.
“You guys know that the 9 is next to the 0 right?”
Wow, CA, I guess I’m not the only one still using a rotary phone.
Dear Dr.,
So what do you say your to your chavrusa when she had to reschedule a date?
You use a rotary phone to type your comments
Wow, that is something
“In unzerer Yeshivish circlesm it is pahsnisht to be dating anyone publicly until the engagement is announced…. Following that geder, there will not be any “how other people refer to us” scenarios…”
Huh?? if a young man and woman are meeting for a drink in a hotel lobby, walking in the park, etc. whether pursuant to a shadchan or having met through friends, and they run into an acquaintance, I think the OP is asking a logical question of how they should introduce the other.
How about “my friend XXX” with no need to add any adjectives or descriptors or status report on what may or not be a longer term relationship.Dorah: It is Halachicly assur for a man and a woman to be friends with each other. Dating isn’t a friendship. It is a process to determine whether the other person is your bashert.
@5T
Big thumbs, small keyboard layout on phoneCTL: The term you might be looking for is “fat finger”.
Another weird halachah from ujm.
N0m: Take up your issue with Rav Moshe after reading the Igros Moshe(E.H. 4:60), Prohibition of opposite gender friendship.
I seriously think there are more important problems in the world to worry about.
Rocky, I thought the equivalent term for a male is “Yoily.” “I made our date later so Yoily wouldn’t miss his chavrusa.”
ANSWER: MY DATE
WB BaalHabooze!! It’s been too long! Stick around a bit…
“my date”, “my friend”, or even the name of the young woman…..As a last resort, perhaps if you encounter an acquaintance while with your date, just respond that, “on the advice of Reb Yosef, the resident YWN troll, I am unable to acknowledge that the person you believe you see with me even exists, much less verbalize her name or possible current or future relationship with me”.
In simple terms, just treat your possible Beschert as she was a 6ft white rabbit named “Harvey” as per the award-winning 1950 film.Dear Takah,
There are more serious things in the world to worry about. How did you guess?
Dear Ujm,
I can’t look it up right now. But isn’t that the one that Rav Moshe forbids perpetuating or initiating a relationship?
Why do you call anybody boy or girl its man and woman.
My woman, isha, potential acquisition, my charge, trainee,
Depends how you relate to her truthfully
Gadolhadorah, I don’t know what circles you come from or identify with. In yeshivish circles which the writer claims to belong to (I believe he really meant this to be a dig – or in ‘Yeshivish’ – a shtoch) if someone yeshivish meets a yeshivish friend who’s on a date, he/she will either nod and look the other way or simply look the other way and pretend that s/he didn’t notice them. There would never be a need to introduce a date to someone you bump into. Who one is dating is a private matter – introductions are inappropriate.
N0m: Look it up and get back to me with your misunderstanding or misinterpretation of it.
Just say the person I’m dating. Assuming you’re ok with talking about that to begin with other people.
Rav Moshe’s teshuva that is being referred to is interesting because some of the sevaras in there contradict what he says in an earlier teshuva-Even Haezer 1:56.
When Avraham Avinu was confronted with this problem, he answered simply “my sister”.
“Major” issue here , this might be what’s causing the shidduch crises
@ladler: Thank you for clarifyng and articulating to @gadolhadorah how unzerer are feerzach.
Any information in the shidduch parsha should be kept under wraps and be restricted to a need-to-know basis.If you go to a hotel lobby in frum cities, you can expect that there will be yeshiva bochurim and seminary girls going on dates. That is just the environment that is most conducive to do so and just happens to be in the public eye. But until the shidduch is signed-off on by the shadchan, the dating couple should not be seen walking together in the community on Shabbos or otherwise. Indoor and outdoor dating activities need to be done outside of the public eye. Of course, it’s possible that someone will see them and recognize one of them. But that should not be the norm.
Dr. E: Despite your posts being reeking with sarcasm, it is absolutely correct that dates and dating activity should be private for tznius reasons. If two people are dating they are dating solely to determine whether they are bashert to marry each other. Until and unless such time that they get engaged, it should not be general public knowledge that they are dating.
> until the shidduch is signed-off on by the shadchan,
if this were the requirement, Yaakov Avinu would still be an older single … I actually saw a sefer referring a certain gadol who would refuse a shidduch unless thru a shadchan. At the same time, private advice I am getting from Rabonim with successful shiduch experiences if double-digits kenehora is …. “shadchanim did not work out for us”. Don’t know who to believe – a sefer or my own ears.
> That is just the environment that is most conducive to do so and just happens to be in the public eye.
there is no invasion of privacy here, all you see is black hats and dark-colored dresses, almost impossible to know who that is! The only people to recognize would be parents (who should not be there) and friends (who are on their own dates at the same time)
“The only people to recognize would be parents (who should not be there) and friends (who are on their own dates at the same time)”
Huh?? The ONLY people in the lobby bar of a large hotel in a frum community who might recognize the couple would be parents and other dating couples?? Are the parents (who shouldn’t be there hiding behind the large potted palm tree near the concierge desk? And its assur for a couple to take a walk in a public park if they prefer being outside versus sitting in a bar?? Would it be better for them to slink off to some remote hiking trail in yenavelt?
No wonder we have a shidduch crisis!!“The person I’m courting.”
It’s very important to some people that their dating remains private. Especially if they don’t want any of their wives to find out.
N0m: In cultures where men have multiple wives (such as by Teimanim, Moroccan Jews and some other Sephardic and non-Ashkenazic communities), they don’t usually “date” American-style. They’re more old fashioned, closer to how Israeli Yidden and American Chasidim go about shidduchim (beshow types), than to the Western dating system.
Also, their wives are already aware that they could have sister-wives, and many already have a few. So it is hardly surprising to them.
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