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let me explain something. The rules are as following
1- Frum looking.
2- Another bochur gets in with you.
3- YOU know someone who is in the car.
4-NOT STICKIN HAND OUT to ask for ride
But may you put yourself into a sakanah and rely on your learning to protect you?
Hashem Is Everywhere: now that you made ”rules”- with 3- YOU know someone who is in the car. & 4-NOT STICKIN HAND OUT to ask for ride—then now your shifting this thread a bit! before we (well at least most of us) we’re understanding that you(or others that you talk about as ”we”) take rides from total strangers! and that is why i understand most had an issue with it! thanks for stating clearly the way it’s done by you & others that your talking about!
“Besides, we say that someone on the way to do a mitzvah cant be harmed. Since the buchrim are going to learn Torah in yeshiva, there is no danger of them hitching rides from frum yidden.”
Once they are on their way to Yeshiva, they may as well run across Ocean Parkway against the light, after all, they cant be harmed. In fact, since they are already going out in the cold and rain, why bother with a coat or umbrella, after all they couldnt possibly get sick on the way to do a mitzvah.
EDITED
Where were you on the day they gave out seichel?
let me explain something. The rules are as following
1- Frum looking.
There are some Pakistanis who have longer beards than many yungerman. They have quite large “yarmulkas” on their heads and often their shmattas (robes) are white. These guys can be quite “frum looking”.
2- Another bochur gets in with you.
What for. One to go for the gun, while one goes for the drivers torso?
3- YOU know someone who is in the car.
Why, if he is frum looking and you have a friend with you, take em on!
4-NOT STICKIN HAND OUT to ask for ride
Stick it out to ask for money? Should you hold a sign like a hitchiker in the midwest that says “torah vodaas or bust”?
mosherose- “… you slandered Rav Reisman. You took his name and smeared it through the mud. You should go on your hands and knees and beg forgiveness from him.”
Dear Moderator/Editor/Censor: even a euphamism is edited? 🙂
What’s a euphamism?
at your service mod:
A euphemism is a substitution of an agreeable or less offensive expression in place of one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant to the listener,[1] or in the case of Doublespeak, to make it less troublesome for the speaker. The deployment of euphemisms is a central aspect within the public application of political correctness.
It also may be a substitution of a description of something or someone rather than the name, to avoid revealing secret, holy, or sacred names to the uninitiated, or to obscure the identity of the subject of a conversation from potential eavesdroppers. Some euphemisms are intended to amuse.
You could probably look it up. It’s euphemism.
Jax, thanks for the definition.
jphone, I edited it out because I didn’t want you to get beat up 😉
(we try to be PC here at YW)
Mod – But it is sooo much fun beating up on jphone. And he seems to enjoy every hit anyways. Pretty please?
I have full faith in the abilities of the moderators/editors/censors to keep my identity private. I dont fear for my safety.
Let me try and rephrase what i wrote in a manner that will satisfy even the most PC members of society.
I had suggested that the next time one is headed to Queens for a mitzvah that they travel through a certain section of Brooklyn whose primary residents are of a certain ethnic background and while stopped at a red light, to open the window all the way, and yell something derogatory about said ethnic group. Since it was stated that someone on their way to do a mitzvah wont come to harm. I had rhetoricly asked if this is what chazal had in mind when they said this.
Why is this making me laugh??!!!!!
jphone, regarding your previous post, that is why i made more then one rule.
wolfish, you should go to Harav Yisroel Reisman shlita and go ask mechila
jphone, “torah vodaath or bust”, HUH??
I meaned that you shouldn’t ask for rides, but if someone stops…
Joseph, is it really true that chaveirim are not trained for “situations” –
I feel very badly about that. Maybe it is something to consider.
Nonetheless, chaveirim are by definition of their positions putting themselves into these “situations” daily. Trained or not – their choice.
3- YOU know someone who is in the car.
*TWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTT*
Hey, Mods! Can I get a foul call on this? He moved the goalposts!
In a thread on hitching rides, HIE says:
I go to yeshiva on Ditmas Ave. and East ninth. and i have to take the coney island bus (B68) to get from Ave J until Ditmas. I appreciate it very much when people stop and pick me up, instead of waiting for a bus. I don’t see any issues with it. I don’t flag down cars but i stand by the curb and if someone is nice enough to stop i am happy.
When I point out the dangers (specifically mentioning the dangers of getting into a car with people you don’t know), he responds with:
wolfish, I have been taking rides for FIVE years and i never got kidnapped and i don’t know anyone who did
When I reiterate that I would never pick up someone I don’t know, he says:
it’s not naive. IT is a mitzvah to pick up bochurim and frum people.
RABBI REISMAN shelita, Rosh Hayeshiva, Yeshiva Torah Vodaath, oNce said, “there should never be bochurim waiting by a bus stop in a frum area” meaning to say that people should offer rides
I followed up with this by stating that, IMHO, Rabbi Reisman is wrong and that it’s irresponsible to tell bochrim to get into cars with strangers. My exact wording was:
Fair enough. Nonetheless, I think R. Reisman is wrong on this issue. Teaching bochrim to get into cars with strangers, even those that appear frum is just wrong and dangerous.
For that, I get flack from HIE:
First of all you have to have alot of guts to say that.
Also, Rabbi Reisman isn’t saying that boys should stick out their hands to hitch. he’s saying it the other way around. If a frum person sees a bochur waiting he should stop and tell him to come in.
In other words, it still sounds like we’re talking about getting rides from strangers. I don’t see anywhere in this conversation where that’s changed.
Now, he comes back with stating that Rav Reisman was NOT talking about strangers but getting rides with people you know. Besides being incompatible with the original quote from Rav Reisman (does he think that everyone riding down Coney Island Avenue knows a bochur waiting by a bus stop?), it’s simply changing the goal posts.
HIE, if Rav Reisman was only talking about picking up people you know, why did you give me grief for disagreeing with Rav Reisman when I made it clear numerous times in this thread that I was only talking about picking up strangers. Obviously I have no objection to bochrim getting into cars with people they know and trust!
The Wolf
“I meaned that you shouldn’t ask for rides, but if someone stops… “
If someone stops, they are most likely trying to do a chesed. But there’s a small chance they are a bad guy. I wish that weren’t the case, but it is.
HIE, I think R’ Reisman would be the first person to tell you that WolfishMusings (and others) are allowed to disagree with him.
Disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean the person has no respect for that person, in practice it usually means the person does respect the person. A person you don’t respect, you don’t disagree with, you ignore.
Furthermore, whenever I have had discussions with my rav and I disagreed with him and argued with him, he never once told me I’m gonna burn, he enjoyed it. It allowed him to clarify his position, and once even change his position to more match my argument.
Someone who is afraid of being disagreed with (and here I’m talking about halacha, kal v’chomer and eitza) is not a gadol. You won’t find one rav/gadol who won’t argue with you a piece of logic he spoke about. What do you think happens after a shiur/shmooze when people crowd the speaker? They’re arguing, debating, clarifying positions. That is the beauty of Judaism. We don’t have a Pope spouting stuff, we have people learning together and clarifying positions and halachas.
Just-a-guy,
Hey, bad guys sometimes need to do chesed too 🙂
of course there is always a small chance that a person is going to encounter a bad guy, but i am not sure anymore, we have to put in a balance the chances of encountering a bad guy and doing chesed. Maybe a person should never put themselves in danger, i do not know anymore, that is why i said follow your instincts.
rav Reisman, means someone youv’e seen before in eg. yeshiva..
rav Reisman, means someone youv’e seen before in eg. yeshiva..
How do you reconcile that with the statement you’ve attributed to him of:
RABBI REISMAN shelita, Rosh Hayeshiva, Yeshiva Torah Vodaath, oNce said, “there should never be bochurim waiting by a bus stop in a frum area” meaning to say that people should offer rides
I think the two are incompatible unless you posit that every frum driver must know multiple kids who wait for the bus… a scenario I find highly implausible.
So, how do you reconcile the two statements?
The Wolf
usually, when a frum person is going down coney island with a child in their car they are going to yeshiva!
usually, when a frum person is going down coney island with a child in their car they are going to yeshiva!
How does that address my point? Perhaps I missed it. Can you please explain it to me in more detail?
Are you assuming that the majority of cars going down Coney Island Avenue know a frum bochur waiting by a bus stop?
The Wolf
NO!
Many of the frum people going down coney (and J) are bringing their children to yeshiva so they should stop?
Do the majority of people drive their kids to yeshiva?
Not in the circles I run in. Most either have school buses (for younger kids) or the kids take the bus (for older kids). I would think that the number of drivers driving down Coney Island Avenue with kids in their car AND with the capacity to take other kids (if they have one kid with no alternate way to get to school, they probably have others as well) is pretty small.
And, as an aside, are you (or Rav Reisman) expecting parents to stop at every block where the bus stops in order to see if they might know a kid who needs a lift? That’s unrealistic.
Bottom line is that I think (assuming your quote is correct) is that Rav Reisman meant it as we initally assumed it and you are changing the tune because you realize that it is dangerous.
Otherwise, I again ask, how you can reconcile his statement that there should NEVER be a bochur waiting with the idea that people shouldn’t pick up other people that they don’t know.
The Wolf
(BTW… you still never answered me on where you got the idea that non-Jews don’t do favors for others?)
The Wolf
i didn’t say they don’t but the yidden definitely do much MUCH more chessed. And BTW, i NEVER saw a goy pick up a public school child from a bus stop to bring him to school.
“i didn’t say they don’t but the yidden definitely do much MUCH more chessed. And BTW, i NEVER saw a goy pick up a public school child from a bus stop to bring him to school.”
I feel like this discussion has taken somewhat of a silly turn, but I understood the mitzvah of offering a yeshiva bochur a ride to Yeshiva to derive from the importance of what the bochur is going to be doing once he gets there, i.e., learning Torah. Why would a goyische driver need to offer a ride to a strange goyische kid so that he could go to school to learn about goyische music, that man comes from apes, and anti-semitic literature in public school?
okay, that is what i’m trying to say, also, look at the list of gemachs and look at the list of goyish non-profit organizations.
Are we talking about gemachs or rides, and of course if you look at the goyim charitable organizations there could be more, but arent we the minority of the world and in proportion I think definitly there is more chesed amongst jews, goyim have told me so.
i was once offered a ride by a goy, i didn’t accept
I understand the the situation of the yeshiva boys on their way to yeshiva, sometimes in very cold weather they could be waiting for a bus to come for a while, many men on their way to daven see the young boys and it really could make a big difference in their day if they are given a ride. Just be careful and do follow your instincts!
good for you.
I hitchhiked twice in brooklyn – I was waiting for a bus and a guy offered me a ride. I was running really late so I accepted. When he dropped me off, he asked for my phone number but I told him no. It almost scared me off until one friday afternoon when I was running super late. I went to my sister to help her out and needed to get back to my apartment. I was waiting for the Nostrand bus when I saw a frum guy in a car. I asked if he were going up Nostrand and he said yes and took me up.
I don’t advocate picking up or trying to hitchike though…
Cherry bim, is everything OKAY? The jewish people are Two percent of America and very few of that two percent is Frum.
Okay as a woman I would NEVER take a ride from a guy and I would never give a guy a ride. Whether I was single or married, if a woman with children in the car would stop, then MAYBE…. I would consider it!
“The jewish people are Two percent of America and very few of that two percent is Frum.”
Yes, but, “look at the list of gemachs and look at the list of goyish non-profit organizations”, was your suggestion, not mine.
I think it’s a beautiful thing to pick up a total stranger because you selflessly want to help a fellow Jew. In most cases, the person picking you up, is genuine, and sincere about wanting to help. Sadly, there is a small percentage of people who do not have good intentions. That is one of a few reasons why hitching is taking a major gamble. The other reasons of course would be, that standing in (or near) the street is a danger to the pedestrian from the passing cars (drivers) who may not see them. It is also against the law in many places, the hitchhiker (and the person picking up a hitcher) can get arrested. Most people in the secular world would never pick up a complete stranger. When they see an “orthodox” dressed individual hitchhiking, they think negatively of all Jews, which means the hitcher is inadvertently causing a chillul Hashem.
If people are going to hitchhike anyway, there should be designated safe “hitching” areas. That way when a driver is picking someone up, they wont risk getting rear ended by the driver behind them. It could also be a better alternative, when only Jewish people know of the location, and if C”V, there is a Jewish driver with ill intentions, other hitchers can be there to help, and/or be witness to who the driver is and know the type of car being driven, along with knowing the license plate number. Or perhaps there can be “known” volunteers who do the “pick up” at any given time.
right and i’m giving you an answer, because you looked up a list of goyish orgs.
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