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Are you pro or con BMG’s freezers?
(We already know that NASI opposes the Roshei Yeshivos freezers.)
The Shidduch question can be debated.
The learning is not debatable – it is the best thing possible. I have yet to meet a guy who doesn’t admit, even if he didn’t like it, that it wasn’t the best thing for his learning.
And if you never sat through it (and continued learning in BMG after the chasunah) don’t comment on this.
i dont even know what that means
I am Con too many chickens not enough hot dogs
Will everyone stop talking in abbreviated Latin, hm?
NASi is wrong to criticize a yeshiva rule made by its roshei yeshiva, who are also more or less the leaders of the yeshivish world in america. (not the lowercase i in NASi, since they don’t deserve a capital I.)
NASi is also wrong in fact. If there was no freezer, guys would come back later, since they could wait until they were actually ready to date instead of until they thought they might want to date in a couple of months.
NASi is also making much ado about nothing, since the freezer is only a couple months (cheshvan until tu bishvat is 3.5 months. Pesach until shiva asar b’tamuz is 2.5 months.)
Farocks/PBA:
NASI is NOT against the freezer. Never has been and probably never will be. Especially since the freezer isn’t going away any time soon and NASI doens’t waste it’s time on ideas that aren’t going to be implemented.
Just another example of inaccurate statements about NASI in this forum.
But why confuse yourselves with the facts. What NASI would like to see happen with the freezer is a whole nother story and would be amazingly effective.
If it every happens you’ll be the first to know…..
Oh. Sorry then.
How does NASI want to force the freezer system to change, AZ?
It’s okay PBA, by now it’s become expected….. FOr starters you can put the cap back in the I of NASI…
avhaben
when/if it happens you’ll know. Not important to discuss it in this forum.
I’m not NASI or their spokesperson. With that said, from their advertisements, NASI appears to be focused on those already dating not encouraging people to start dating younger. No NASI initiative that I have ever seen advertised even implies criticism of the freezer concept, let alone outright criticize it. Its one thing to disagree with a prposed initiative, its quite another to criticize something that does not exist.
BMG’s freezers?:- Please don’t ever utilize this expression; It is a horendous way to describe a human being, since unfortuinately, dead human bodies are placed into a freezer in many cases, so it is highly insensitive & derogetary of any human being to talk such language, and has opened some very raw wounds.
apy: NASI does wish to lower the average age boys get married at. To that end, as AZ alluded to above, they wish to “modify” the freezer.
NASI does wish to slightly lower the average age that boys get married/begin dating.
They have ZERO interest in modifying the freezer to accomlish that end.
Please before you comment about a project make sure you have accurate information.
Ah, but you do want to modify it.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/enough-talk-on-shidduchim/page/3#post-120031
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/enough-talk-on-shidduchim/page/3#post-120121
But you get credit for http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/enough-talk-on-shidduchim#post-119178
PBA:
read those EXACT posts
Modify- YES
shorten- NO
and the goal of modifyin it NOT to get boys to date younger, as you correctly say, it’s realitvly minor the benefit that would be had (althought truth be told, every month would help).
The goal of modifying would be for a toatlly different purpose.
Hey, can we borrow some freezer space for Pesach?
Should be plenty of space since it empties about 8 weeks before. Not sure who washed it out though.
The “freezer” concept, the way it was explained to me many years ago, was BMGs way of weeding out those who joined to learn from those who joined to facilitate their dating. True, not true, no idea. If true, that horse is so far out of the barn…..
My first 3 1/2 months in Lakewood (when I was in the “Freezer”) were my best months of learning in my 5 years Lakewood.
Case closed.
I think the freezer was instituted because the yeshiva felt that many students were just using BMG as a base for shiduch hunting,
without being really interested in the yeshiva itself.
while that still happened and happens, the freezer lessens that somewhat.
Just my guess.
what’s the difference between BMG and a hospital?
in a hospital, you first go on life support and then into the freezer,
in BMG, it’s first into the freezer and then life- support!!!!
No African its not life support its wife support.
african-american:
That was possibly one of the best lines I have ever read.
Against it.
how in the world can you demand a jew to do something against the torah?!
and it is a Yeshiva that is demanding such a thing! for what? for Hashems torah.. well hashem wants Buchurim to get married.
“BMG and a hospital”
very funny!
“Case closed.”
Oh really? And the past 4.75 years have been what? A total write-off? A waste of a good mind?
Good thing your wife / father-in-law are too busy working to read the CR. Otherwise, they’d feel like the fool you make them out to be.
Shame on you for saying such a thing
bpt- Just to clear up your erroneous assumption, I left Lakewood about 12 years ago, and I have been working hard since. I am actually the one who is too busy working to normally read the CR. So, no I don’t take my wife and father in law to be fools.
I don’t know what is wrong with stating the obvious that one learns better when they are not involved in the Shidduch market, or when they are a Chosson, or when they have a wife and family at home.
If you have a Yeshiva where people stay for many years, wouldn’t you want their first few months to be without any distractions?
2scents –
and it is a Yeshiva that is demanding such a thing! for what? for Hashems torah.. well hashem wants Buchurim to get married.
At the expense of their learning? Wherever did you get that notion from?
bpt –
The guy didn’t say he is still there, in fact he sounded like he was talking about the past. And he wasn’t saying they were a write off, not in any way, just that there was a qualitative difference. And I fully agree with him.
african american- LOL!! Good one!!
I rcvd an email earlier quoting ur joke!!
How funny!!
2scents
“how in the world can you demand a jew to do something against the torah?!”
What are you talking about? Did you follow Pirkei Avos which says to get married at 18? Nowadays men are not ready for marriage at 18. BMG’s opinion is IMHO that for the bucherim’s ruchnius its best if they sit and learn for a few months before starting to date.
Everyone knows the freezer rule. So why dont you tell every bocher to come back from E”Y or wherever a zman earlier??
“NASI does wish to slightly lower the average age that boys get married/begin dating.
They have ZERO interest in modifying the freezer to accomlish that end.”
In other words. NASI would like to encourage boys to enter the freezer (and therefore “defrost”) at a younger age?
bp27 and yitayningwut –
OK, noted (and I apologize, for shooting 1st, asking questions later).
But you cannot deny the general tone that many bochurim have (I could have gone further, had I not been “distracted” by my family responsibilities” ect)
Fact is, your job (at the age of 20-something) is to be a family man. So please don’t bemoan your lost opportunity. You did not “lose” anything.. you are doing what you are meant to do!
There is a vort said on Pirke Avos, 2:5 <sorry, don’t remember who said it> ” When I have time, I will learn”.
A yungerman was upset that he does not have the time to focus on learning like he used to in his single days. The reply he got was, “perhaps your avodah is to be a “loh tiponeh” person (someone who is always on the go), and despite your tough scedule, you still squeeze in as much learning as you can.
But again, sorry. I should not have jumped.
Freezer is gevaldik. It allows for a bachur who is new to get his whole essence into learing and when he dates he is doing so from an emotionally elevated state, a place of being “in the groove” instead of with accompanied frustration of acclimation. I have coached many and I have seen the truth of this on frequent occasions.
apy:
YES and NO
Boys coming back slightly earlier from EY (or not going at all) and thus coming a bit younger to BMG, has nothing to do with modyfiying the freezer rule.
Yungerman,
You have not addressed what I said. It is against chazal.
In my opinion, whatever paper a bachur signed regarding not getting married for a zman, might be invalid as it is a Massneh al mah shekusuv batorah.
2scents –
You have not addressed what I said. It is against chazal.
Care to address what I said?
AZ. Yes, what and no, what?
Tx
Ok here you go.
A) it is NOT at the expense of learning,
B) I would challenge you to first let me know that this mitzva has an exception, then I will chanllenge your challenge..
I would like to state, that I am in no postion to challenge the daas of ANY legitimate rav or Rosh Yeshiva, I was only posting my opinion.
2scents –
Last time I checked, it’s a mefurashe halacha in Shulchan Aruch (EH 1:3):
??? ????? ???? ?’ ??? ????? ???? ???? ?”? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??????
And as it says in Yoreh Deah (246:2):
????? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ???
Pretty clear cut.
EH: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9727&st=&pgnum=9&hilite=
YD: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9147&st=&pgnum=137&hilite=
And of course it is at the expense of learning. Forget quality, let’s say the quality is the same. Which married guy is able to learn three full sedarim a day?
Please be honest enough to agree that the freezer has nothing to do with what you just wrote.
My first proof to that is simply there was no freezer before it was established in Lakewood, there is no freezer in any other yeshiva, i don’t think that Lakewood is the only yeshiva that holds the shulchan aruch.
Gimme a break!
Farrocks: when it happens you’ll know.
Dont make BMG the first and only stop when looking for an eligible bachur. If you do, then live with the reality that that for several months each year a fair percentage of bachurim are not dating. MAke believe they are 14 years old.
2scents- “In my opinion, whatever paper a bachur signed regarding not getting married for a zman, might be invalid as it is a Massneh al mah shekusuv batorah.”
I dont recall where the Torah says one must get married within the first 3 months of starting to learn at BMG.
Also, “You have not addressed what I said.”
I said: “Everyone knows the freezer rule. So why dont you tell every bocher to come back from E”Y or wherever a zman earlier??”
Would this satisfy you?
“NASI is NOT against the freezer. Never has been and probably never will be. Especially since the freezer isn’t going away any time soon and”
” NASI doens’t waste it’s time on ideas that aren’t going to be implemented.”
really?so is nasi closed? which of their genius ideas was so great? laying out 15 grand to go on a list?
far rocks:
same basis I had for knowing a few months ahead of time that a letter from 70 R”Y would come out. In this same forum they posted as if i was fool……
until the letter came out.
Can’t say it’s 100% guranteed…. but fairly likely…
When it happens I’ll let you know….
klugreyid:
Did you know nasi was around for 4 years before it launched this new program. Which for the record has been very succesful so far B”H.
And just to get you facts correct- the hishgest bracket is 10,500.
Are you familiar with the programs they have up and running in the commuies I listed above?
You might want to research a bit on the program before you post.
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