Black hats

It is part of the uniform of a Yeshiva man. It indicates one is a member of the Yeshiva community much the same way fatigues uniform indicates one is a member of the military. Just like military uniform has changed over time, so has the Yeshiva uniform, and this is part of the current uniform.

Virtually every society has its elegant and put-together form of dress. The form of dress of the United States and of many “Western” countries is that of a suit and hat. Unfortunately, the hat (and suit jacket, and soon the tie, too) have been mostly abandoned due to society’s decadence. However, the many military and other respectable institutions (like police departments), whose uniforms do include a hat, provide continued proof that a hat (and suit) is the most elegant form of dress, even if you would not nowadays wear a hat if you are not in a profession whose uniform includes a hat.

The black hat, in particular, is essentially as Grandmaster stated above. It’s not innately any more respectful than a different elegant hat, say, a Navy uniform’s cap, but in context it most likely is.

Therefore, *unless your minhag is otherwise* or there are practical consideration involved (work, people, etc.), it follows that a yeshiva-educated male would wear a hat to davening if not also throughout the day not less than, say, a firefighter or police officer wears his cap whenever he is on duty.

Clothing are worn to send a message.

Three generations ago we wore hats and jackets to show that we were of those:

“in accordance with the practice of Jewish husbands, who work for their wives, honor, provide for and support them in truth.”

In three days from now we will dress to show that we are of those who do not work on but honor the Shabbos.

black goes w/ everything

I remember when I was a little kid, we whent to a hotel where there were a couple of “non-black-hatters”. My mother told me then that they’re great talmidei chachamim (they’re well known). I opened my eyes wide, and was like, “What?! But they don’t even where hats!” The innkeeper heard my comment and he told me something that I’ll never forget. He said, “maidele, I see “black-hatters” coming here, but they’re empty shells. Those guys may not wear what your father does, but those guys are shtarke bochurim!” Al tistakel bakankan…

“Especially when one grows up in a society/ is born in an era where putting on a hat may make them feel less yirah than not wearing one? “

Hows that?

‘fyi firemen definitely do NOT wear their hats “whenever they are on duty”‘

I often work at FDNY HQ and can personally attest that this is the case. I do frequently see frum uniformed FDNY people wearing yarmulkes, though!

yogiboboo- I know the person you are talking about and her father put on a black hat recently because he was a “high” member in the shul and felt that it was necessary. Turns out this girls new husband very rarely wears a black hat and when I was talking to her about it she said to me- I never thought it would be me saying this but it doesn’t matter to me if he wears it or not…

charliehall:

Its interesting you mention your wedding story with the hat.

Here in Texas the expression is All Hat No Cattle!!!

Who really cares if one wears a hat or not! THat does not make one a good jew!

Moshiach’s Hat

By Rabbi Yitzchok Feigenbaum

“Twas the night of the Geulah, – And in every single Shtiebel. Sounds of the Torah could be heard coming from every kind of Yeedel.

This one in English Some in Hebrew, some in Yiddish. Some saying Pshat And some saying a Chiddish. And up in Shamayim The Aibishter decreed: “The time has come for My Children to be freed.”

“Rouse the Moshiach From his heavenly berth. Have him get in his chariot, And head down to earth.” The Moshiach got dressed And with a heart full of glee, Went down to earth and entered The first Shtiebel he did see.

“I am the Moshiach! Hashem has heard your plea! Your Geulah has come! It’s time to go free!” They all stopped their learning; This was quite a surprise. And they looked at him carefully, With piercing sharp eyes.

“He’s not the Moshiach!” Said one with a grin, “Just look at his hat, At the pinches and brim!” “That’s right!” cried another With a grimace and frown, “Whoever heard of Moshiach With a brim that’s turned down?”

“Well,” thought Moshiach, “If this is the rule, I’ll turn my brim up Before I go to the next shul.” So he walked right on over To the next shul in town. Sure to be accepted, Since his brim was no longer down. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, As he began to enter, But the Jews wanted to know first If he was Left, Right, or Center.

“You’re clothes are so black!” They cried out in fright. “You can’t be Moshiach You’re much too far right!” “If you want to be Moshiach, You must be properly outfitted.” So they replaced his black hat with a kippah that was knitted. Wearing his new Kippah, Moshiach went out and said: “No difference to me what I wear on my head.”

So he went to the next shul, For his mission was dear, But he was getting frustrated with the Yidden down here. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, And they all stopped to stare, And a complete eerie stillness filled up the air.

“You’re the Moshiach?! just imagine that! Whoever heard of Moshiach – without a black hat?!” “But I do have a hat!” the Moshiach then said. So he pulled it right out and plunked it down on his head.

The shul started laughing, And one said: “where’s your kop?” You can’t have a Moshiach With a brim that’s turned up!” “If you want to be Moshiach And be accepted in this town, Put some pinches in your hat And turn that brim down!”

Moshiach walked out and said: “I guess my time hasn’t come. I’ll just have to return to where I came from.” So he went to his chariot, But as he began to enter, All sort of Jews appeared From the Left, Right, and Center.

“Please wait – do not leave. It’s all their fault!” they said, And they pointed to each other And to what was on each other’s head. Moshiach just looked sad And said, “you don’t understand.”

And then started up his chariot to get out of this land. “Yes, it’s very wonderful That you all learn Torah, But you seem to have forgotten a crucial part of our Mesorah.

“What does he mean?” “what’s he talked about?” And they all looked bewildered, And all began to shout. Moshiach looked back and answered, “The first place to start, Is to shut up your mouths and open up your hearts. “To each of you, certain Yidden Seem too frum or too frei, But all yidden are beloved In the Aibishter’s eye.”

And on his way up he shouted: “If you want me to come, Try working a little harder On some Ahavat Chinam!”

anon1m0us:

Who really cares if one wears a hat or not! THat does not make one a good jew!

Rabbi Solavatchik, the undisputed leader of Modern Orthodoxy cared. In fact, Rabbi H Schachter reports, that there was a man in Boston who davend at RS minyan. He had about an hour walk. During the summer heat, he left his hat and suit jacket in Shul, so he wouldn’t be as hot during his hour-long walk each way.

Rabbi JB Solavatchik told him (in usual way..) to that kovod Shabbos would be for him to wear his hat in the heat.

Truth Be Told: Nice Story, but still does not reflect the beliefs of the Rov. The mere fact that a person always wore a hat the rav felt he should wear one even if it is hot. If you asked the Rov if a YU boy should wear a hat, I am 100% sure his answer would be different.

Rabbi Aaron Rakeffet, who studied under the Rov himself said :To me it’s a compliment that I don’t need [a black hat] to be frum…..because being a Torah Jew is the most important thing in the world.” Did he have anything against it? NO, but wearing a black hat does not make a good Jew.

To anon1m0us: Best. CR Post. Ever.

Clark Kent…

A soldier is a soldier when he is in uniform and when he is not in uniform. A soldier behaves like a soldier when he is in uniform and when he is not in uniform.

Although I don’t disagree that a frum person should dress in a fine way and in a way that identifies what he is, and I am not against wearing a black hat, I am more interested that he can be identified as a frum Jew by the way he ACTS (in business, to people he encounters on the street or in a store or on a train or bus or plane) than by what is sitting on his head.

AND… most importantly – that the way he acts should not be a stira to what the black hat SHOULD imply.

If you see a man in tights he may be superman, he may not. Even the big S on his chest might indicate nothing more than this man is a supervisor. I sat next to an African American man on the subway this morning who was wearing a black felt hat. Does that make him a yeshiva man?

What I meant by my last sentence “Especially when one grows up in a society/ is born in an era where putting on a hat may make them feel less yirah than not wearing one” was that for a person who grew up in a “modern orthodox” society but is yeshiva educated and frum, wearing a hat may not elicit the response/ emotions it would from someone who grew up in black hat community… it may be counterproductive. To demonstrate albeit through a bit of an exaggeration, someone from our culture wearing a kilt, although the formal wear of the irish, will probably cause more kalus rosh than it will add to someone’s decorum. If it’s not an accessory you are used to, the strangeness of the item may prove to be a distraction.

And just for the record, many very frum, very orthodox rabbeim do not wear black hats. Personally I have an extra level of respect for those rabbeim i know who dont feel the need to put on a black hat when they themselves did not grow up with one because they live the ideal that chitzonius is sheker.

Blueprints:

I’m not really sure what your point was that you say you’ve made so well, I’d be interested if you would please elaborate… but to address your question about what I believe is respectable clothing?

A nice pair of slacks and a button down shirt are considered classy by everybody. Your identifiable as a Jew because your are dressed nicely and have your kipa on.

Just remember, they didnt wear white shirts, black suits, and black hats in the desert. That means that what has become the accepted norm was at one point a “new thing”. In fact, as other posters mentioned above, it actually developed in order to reflect the current period’s culture and accepted norms of dress. Adjusting what we consider to be chashuv dress would just be following that precedent

“If you see a Yid in a black hat, you know he is a member of the Yeshiva community.”

The custom in many MO communities, including YU, is to wear a hat on Shabat but not during the week. I presume that means that the YU/MO world is part of the Yeshiva community on Shabat but not during the week?

anon1m0us:

If you asked the Rov if a YU boy should wear a hat, I am 100% sure his answer would be different.

Please read my other post on this thread. This was his advice to his YU talmidim (who bothered asking).

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/black-hats#post-224130

gavra_at_work: Rabbeinu Channanel explains that Gemorah, that the black clothing will stop him from committing the sin.

“a teacher in the yeshiva I attended tried to convince me that Avraham Aveenu and Moshe Rabaynu wore black hats.”

And we wonder why so many people go off the derech.

Rambam never wore a black fedora.

Neither did the Remah.

Neither did the Vilna Gaon.

In fact, neither did the Chofetz Chaim, even though by the end of his life they had become common dress in non-Jewish circles. (I heard this directly from a RY who learned in the CC’s yeshiva while the CC was still alive.)

Rashi’s Hat: In Chullin 18b, 19a the gemara discusses the limiting parameters of where the two simanim are to be cut. On the trachea, the upper limit is the shipui kova, the taper point of the structure that sits atop the trachea. Rashi z’l says there that there is a structure atop the the trachea like a hat on a head. So if the shipui kova looks like a hat, then a hat should also look like a shipui kova- sort of a elongated pentagon with the top point lopped of ( in cross section) Of course the analogy does not refer to color, but if it did, the hat would not be black.

It is a minhag. Period. Moshe Rabbeinu did not own a Borsalino, I am quite sure. Neither did Rambam (he wore some type of turban).

The black hat is part of today’s Yeshivish levush. One can be an extraordinary, frum person without wearing a black hat. One can likewise be a waste of space int eh Yeshivah, even while wearing a hat. it is what is UNDER that hat that makes all the difference. If you want a boy with a black hat, only go out with such boys (but make sure their middos match their appearance). If you don’t care about the outward appearance, then go out with guys who do not wear black hats (but make sure their middos, likewise are worthy of you).

Truth be Told: As you mentioned, a HAT. R’ Schachter never said a black hat. It could be a Russian hat, gray, blue or any other type. Per your quotes.

CharlieHall: I actually had that argument with a Skvar Chosid when I saw Moshe Rabaynu with curly payos in New Square. I had to enlighten him what the posek stated when he first came to Midyon. He looked like an Ish Mitzri!! Yes, there are great pshatim on what that means. But the poshet pshat in Posek he looked like a regular Egyptian. Sorry, he looked like an Egyptian prince. Do people think Egyptian princes had curly payos??

The Torah explicitly states that Moshe was chosen because he had a heart and cared for even his sheep. Not that he was a TaLmud Chochum, or was even a Nasi in Israel. He was a jew that cared about other jews. That is what is important. Hats, or yarmulka’s mean nothing if us jews do not have ahavas chinum.